Bovice

Just curious if all your areas are as bad as mine. The law in my state is they must get 3 feet over to pass and it wouldn't matter if it was a 3-4 lane road and me and the car are the only two on it, it's very rare that I get any more than 6 inches, tops, when I'm being passed, by 99% of drivers. Have been "officially" side-swiped twice; and unofficially (didn't hit me, but nipped my backpack, which protruded a bit off of my body) once

Chris516

The law in my state is 3ft., Virginia is 4ft., and DC is 2ft.. Regardless of which jurisdiction I might be riding in at the time, I 'take the lane'.

FBinNY 

No offense intended, but Please get real. Without knowing anything I can be pretty sure that passes within 6" are rare, not 99%.

I'm in NY and ride in congested areas all the time. Even in Manhattan, passes under 3' are the excepting not the rule, and up here in the northern burbs, close passes (under 3-4') are very rare. The average is more like 5'.

NYS doesn't have a 3' law, simply saying that there must be safe clearance. I actually think this is better law, and consistent with general traffic law, that says the being passed vehicle has the right of way, and the passing vehicle must wait for an opportunity to pass safely.

So, while I'm sympathetic for your concerns about close passes, you won't get meaningful help until you report the problem clearly and honestly, without exaggeration or hyperbole.

kickstart

Whenever someone is constantly having an issue when they're on the road, it's most likely because they have failed to identify the one common denominator.

Bovice

eh, you're right; I don't sit there and count every car so to say 99 out of 100 cars may be much, but it's certainly not rare and happens more often than not, especially on a particular stretch of my commute.

Those side-swipes I mentioned in the OP both happened in the past 6 weeks as well as a lady who sped up to make a turn, cut me off, and slammed the brakes to make the turn in time; went right into the back of her (lol though she did get over about a foot during that pass)

FBinNY 

We all run into close passes now and then. However if you're doing that much worst than average, you need to look at the common denominator that Kickstart referred to.

As I said, your post is long on hyperbole and short on usable information.

B. Carfree

Bovice, the folks referring to the common denominator aren't picking on you (much). It's just that there are often things you can do to decrease or increase the number of dangerous passes you have to put up with. If you are hugging the white line/gutter and the lane is eleven feet wide, you're going to be passed closely and, while it's not your fault, in that you didn't do anything illegal, you are inviting overtaking motorists to pass you closely when you do this.

Briefly, if the lane is wide enough for a motorist to pass you safely and legally while you ride all the way to the right, then by all means do so. However, such lanes are relatively rare, IME. If the lane isn't wide enough for a motorist to pass me while staying in the lane, then I'll be riding quite near the center of the lane. Sure, I encounter the occasional horn-honker and still get a few close passes, but those are much rarer than they were back-in-the-day (many decades ago) when I was a default gutter-hugger.

In decades past, that was pretty much the end of the story. Nowadays, with so many scofflaw motorists paying more attention to reading their texts and such than driving, you need to have some technique for determining if the overtaking traffic actually sees you. Many riders rely on mirrors (and have interesting stories of life-saving bail-outs). Some folks develop a keen sense of hearing that clues them in to what's happening behind them. Others are able to turn their heads without losing their line and many riders do all of the above. The danger of such motorists is probably minimal, but the faster you ride the less likely you are to get hit. The stories I read of such collisions in the news generally involve such motorists running into stationary objects, like cars that have stopped to make a left turn.

kickstart

IMO, its not where you default to, but how you do it.

People are usually more perceptive than we give them credit for,
If you ride/drive like you don't belong on the road or invite them to take take chances they will oblige. If you ride/drive too assertively in a way that makes them feel like you're trying to control them, it can turn into a fight over turf.

I think most people recognize the difference between someone trying to be safe and someone being a road hog.

rydabent

I ride a LWB bent and a trike. When I am on the trike I always get more room on the pass. Apparently some motorist believe that my trike is a handicap device, and they sure dont want to be caught hitting a handicap person.

But what the heck is that is what they think, good deal, it makes me safer.

delcrossv

Same with me on the 'bents. they usually take a whole lane to pass, but I don't hug the kerb. Probably some combination of "WTF is That?!?" and "Dont want to hit the gimp on the couchbike". I get a lot more smile and waves than I do on the DF so I'll give some credit to the gimp on bike theory.

kickstart

Its the same with my two motorcycles. When I'm on my Yamaha V-Star, if I go too slow I'll pick up a tailgater in no time, drivers will pull out in front of me rudely, or violate my lane. When I'm on my Ural sidecar rig its almost like I have a force field around me, few tailgaters, few cutoffs, few lane violators.
I think its because 3 wheelers, and recumbents are unusual, and register subconsciously, snapping drivers out of their "me first" gotta go mentality.

ItsJustMe

I don't believe anyone experiences a significant number of 6" passes and doesn't get hit almost daily, because in my experience car drivers have NO idea where the other side of their car is. Could YOU drive past a stationary object and leave 6" between your mirror and the object? I can't and I think I have a better idea than most where the right side of my car is.

There's no law here in Michigan stating a minimum required distance for a pass. It's rare for anyone to get closer than 2 feet. 4 or 5 is more common, and a lot of people completely change lanes. But that's because a lot of my riding is on roads where there's usually nobody coming the other way so changing lanes doesn't bother anyone.

spivonious

PA requires 4 feet. Most of my passes are between 2 and 10 feet. Maybe 1 out of 500 is under 2 feet. I've only had one pass under 1 foot in the two years I've been commuting. That was scary, and caused me to take the lane more often on narrow roads.

enigmaT120

They usually move over into the other lane. I think 2 feet is about as close as anybody has come. I got passed by a log truck on a highway last week and, while it felt very close, I think he was leaving 3 feet of room and it just felt close because his truck was so big.

Cars pass one another much more closely (in opposite directions) than they pass me.

howsteepisit

I'd suggest that the Op tape a flexible ruler to their handlebars, either 6" or 1 ' extended and see how many time it gets hit. I'd bet not as often as they think.

Looigi

It depends on the roads and situations but on most roads with very little traffic it's usually 6 or more feet but sometimes 3-4 feet. On a few occasions it's less than three feet. Only skillful drivers who are confident in knowing where the right side of their vehicle is pass closer than that. Only the very best of the best pass as close as 6".

howsteepisit

OR the very drunkest

dynaryder

DC is 3',VA 2':
WABA

runner pat

I can guarantee you it's the gimp factor. I ride a handcycle(cause I'm a gimp) and on the same roads as before my accident and it's like night and day. I've had people refuse to pass even when I'm entirely in a bike lane, they wait for traffic to clear in the oncoming lane to pass.

Chris516

Bovice, I realized my original answer only stated what the law was. I didn't actually answer your question. I did say that I 'take the lane'. But I didn't explain why. In my opinion, the laws about how closely a motorist passes a cyclist, are subjective and presumptuous. Because, They PRESUME that a cyclist will be 'hugging the curb'. Also, Not all drivers(as you have seen in your own experience), care about or even try to obey that law. So my response in 'taking the lane', is also so I have the same amount feet that motorists' are supposed use to pass, I can as a buffer zone if a motorist passes extremely close.

contango 

I don't know if the UK has a specific law that designates how much space a driver must give, although my view is that a one-size-fits-all law is usually unhelpful.

If I'm going 20 in a 30 limit on a flat section of road I don't really care if a car passing at 30mph (i.e. a 10mph speed difference) passes within a couple of feet. If I'm going 15mph up a hill in a 60 zone I very much care if someone blows past at 60mph while leaving me no more than 24". If there's oncoming traffic and they slow down to go past at 25mph and then speed up again I don't mind so much if they are closer.

One thing I've read several times (and my experience suggests there's at least some truth to it) is that whatever space you leave between yourself and and edge of the road is effectively a message to other road users that defines how much space you consider your own. So if you ride with 12" of the edge of the road, cars are more likely to pass closer than if you ride 3' away from the edge.

These days unless there's a specific reason to do otherwise I ride either in the centre of my lane, or along where the inside car tyre would go. If the lane is wide enough for someone behind to pass safely, and they aren't harassing me, I'll move closer to the edge to let them go by. Every once in a while on a local road with a 20mph limit I'll be going 18-22mph and have someone behind who obviously considers it critical they get past the cyclist whatever it takes, and my response to someone like that is to hold my line and refuse to let them pass. When there are cars parked both sides of the road, effectively turning the road into a single lane, there's no way they can safely pass me so if I'm at or near the speed limit I'll just leave them to wait until it is safe.

B. Carfree

I don't think it works exactly like that. I suspect this meme came about because a gutter-hugger will get passed closely because s/he is inviting an overtaking motorist with just enough room to squeeze between her/him and the center line. When a gutter-hugger learns to move out away from the edge when the lane is too narrow for a car to pass within the lane, then the overtaking cars will move into the next lane to pass.

To the former gutter-hugger, it looks like there is a relationship between the distance they are from the road edge and the distance they are given when passed, but that is simply a consequence of withdrawing the invitation to pass within the lane. As one moves further and further into the lane, the space to the edge of the roadway increases, but the space given by passing motorists does not. On narrow roads with a single lane in each direction, that space may well decrease since the overtaking vehicle can't go any further out than the far edge of the next lane.

FBinNY 

I agree, and base it on 45 years riding in traffic. Passing drivers make an assessment about how much room they need to pass. When there's room, or they're changing lanes anyway, they pass by a wide margin because there's no reason not to. However if there's perceived room within the lane or without having to consider oncoming traffic many (not nearly all) will try to pass in the space available.

Some will make a slight move left hoping that other drivers will accommodate that (whether oncoming or adjacent) and push through that way. I don't mind the partial lane change, unless it needs the cooperation of oncoming drivers who don't, forcing a squeeze to the right.

Riding in from the edge forces drivers to analyze the passing situation, and make a decision based on actual traffic conditions. It also gives you Plan B room to move right when they miscalculate, or pinch in before the pass is complete.

Consularrider

VA just amended the distance to three feet in the most recent legislative session. I do not believe the governor has signed it yet and I don't think it would go into effect until this summer.

Chris516

Thank you for correcting me.