Originally Posted by genec
(Post 16806629)
......what does happen at least once a week though is the bot that creates a new account to give us a link to some live feed soccer.
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I avoid our local MUPs like the plague.... as bad as our streets and motorists are, they are far less chaotic and have a greater sense of order and predictability.
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Originally Posted by JimmyBB
(Post 16806401)
Hi everyone,
I joined this forum, because I am both a biker and a pedestrian (long-distance walking etc.). I would like to mention something that seems obvious but that many bikers overlook: the timing of your warning (bell or shout) to pedestrians in the path ahead of you. I know some elderly people (slow reaction times) who have been knocked down by bicyclists, and I have also experienced some near misses and brushes with speeding bikers as well. If you are biking at 20 mph (not a very fast pace), you are covering about 30 feet per second. That means if you shout or ring your warning from 30 feet behind the pedestrian in front of you, s/he has one second to process what you shouted (or dinged) and react to it. If you do it 15 feet (3 bike lengths, shall we say?) from behind the pedestrian, s/he will have one half of a second to respond. Neither of these is really enough time, but too many bikers wait until they are actually passing before saying, "On your left" or ringing a bell. This is more likely to startle the pedestrians than give them warning, causing them to jump into your path or move erratically in front of you. Not the intended outcome. I suggest bikers start ringing their bells or shouting their warnings from AT LEAST 50 feet away, especially if they are traveling faster than 20mph. It sounds like a PITA to do that for every single pedestrian, but if you cannot be bothered, don't complain about pedestrians in "your way." Cheers! Have NO IDEA what that sudden yell or bell means Only hardened bike riders know what- that shout means-and if you scream passing left- they might just hear left-and MOVE LEFT. Simpler solution- never pass any pedestrians-especially oldsters or kids or dog on or off leash at 20 mph!! Slow waaaaaay down to 5-6 mph-under 10 FPS- and swing as wide as possible Bike riders-riding at speed-want a workout-having to accelerate back up-improves the workout So SLOW down to pass-waaaay down! Bike riders blowing past at speed-in a long line PISSES EVERYONE OFF- and oldsters-VOTE- and contact their representatives-complain etc SLOW WAAAY DOWN TO PASS Yelling "commands warnings" just startles folks. |
Originally Posted by RaleighSport
(Post 16807754)
Just for reference, I assume people who post in this subforum wait and pass safely on MUPs which is why I felt the OP isn't going to hit their "target audience" here.
OP doesn't seem to have a seasoned appreciation for the nuances of what he's advising, from the perspective of safety. For example, alerting from two seconds back at 20 mph will have no benefit whatsoever in some of the situations he describes. You must reduce speed and then alert. In other specific situations, as you know, you're better off without warning. They don't like it, but it's safer. I "ding" at just about everyone, with enough time that many of them acknowledge before I pass. Those who don't acknowledge or show an awareness present a decision point for several options. That pertains regardless of how far back you attempt to alert them. |
why does one need to ring a bell to pass do you slam your horn everytime you overtake on the highway too? im confused
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Originally Posted by wphamilton
(Post 16808397)
I "ding" at just about everyone, with enough time that many of them acknowledge before I pass.
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Originally Posted by dynodonn
(Post 16808426)
Though using a MUP is useful for many cyclists, but having to slow and alert just about every person on the MUP in my attempt to make a pass is mind boggling, and I just cannot entertain the thought of having motorists doing the same on the road. Nothing against MUPs, they have their place for many cyclists and peds, just an insight to why I personally use the road instead of our local MUPs.
Originally Posted by dynodonn
(Post 16808362)
I avoid our local MUPs like the plague.... as bad as our streets and motorists are, they are far less chaotic and have a greater sense of order and predictability.
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Originally Posted by dynodonn
(Post 16808426)
Though using a MUP is useful for many cyclists, but having to slow and alert just about every person on the MUP in my attempt to make a pass is mind boggling, and I just cannot entertain the thought of having motorists doing the same on the road. Nothing against MUPs, they have their place for many cyclists and peds, just an insight to why I personally use the road instead of our local MUPs.
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Originally Posted by RaleighSport
(Post 16808429)
........if we rode on the streets as most pedestrians travel MUP's, I'm fairly sure cycling would have a much higher fatality rate.
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Originally Posted by dynodonn
(Post 16808426)
Though using a MUP is useful for many cyclists, but having to slow and alert just about every person on the MUP in my attempt to make a pass is mind boggling, and I just cannot entertain the thought of having motorists doing the same on the road. Nothing against MUPs, they have their place for many cyclists and peds, just an insight to why I personally use the road instead of our local MUPs.
I have a bulb horn on one bike, and a vintage E.A. Labs manual Klaxon on the other, nobody ignores them and they get through to the ear bud crowd, they even work for motorists. I think horns are great, but I get the impression that bells and even more so horns are offensive to the delicate sensibilities of many image conscience cyclists and weight weenies. |
Originally Posted by wphamilton
(Post 16808439)
Depends on the MUP and traffic, and traffic on the MUP. Sometimes I don't have to slow down past 20, passing at 15 isn't that onerous either, but on the weekend it's really bad and I'll only be on it briefly if at all as a shortcut to where I want to start a ride. When it's too crowded and too many neophytes I'm with you on that but on the more clear ones, no problem.
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Originally Posted by kickstart
(Post 16808461)
I think horns are great, but I get the impression that bells and even more so horns are offensive to the delicate sensibilities of many image conscience cyclists and weight weenies.
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Originally Posted by keyven
(Post 16807310)
I don't know about the US but here in Singapore MOST pedestrians do not acknowledge or react to a bell, regardless of how its rang. Granted, my Brompton bell is far from an airhorn, but in most cases when we're not besieged by ambient traffic noise, they still can't, or won't react. They just continue walking firmly ensconced in whatever thoughts they were harboring.
This is not something I've done once or twice and came to the conclusion - it's many dozens of times, from the elderly to the young, more often than not without any visible earphones/distractions attached. Maybe there's just something about the human brain that seems naturally disposed to ignore sharp, frantic bell-ringing in the background. Maybe speed happy cyclists should find another route, or perish the thought, slow down to a pace consistent with cycling amongst the many legitimate users of a MUP. |
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Post 16808507)
Why do some cyclists believe that every pedestrian (on a recreational path/trail where walking is permitted) is required to "react" in some way to obnoxious or loudmouth cyclists? What reaction do these bell ringing shouting cyclists expect? A bow or curtsey, perhaps? Why shouldn't pedestrians on a recreational path talk to each other or on a cell phone, or listen to their music?
Maybe speed happy cyclists should find another route, or perish the thought, slow down to a pace consistent with cycling amongst the many legitimate users of a MUP. Sidenote: I can recall a MUP encounter I had early on in adult cycling, I came up behind a jazzy scooter chair user or some such other mobility device user, the path was maybe 4' wide and I'd been reading all the horror stories of MUP users, which seemed to point towards the mobility scooter crowd as being rather dangerous if you snuck up on them. Well anyways, this guy was actually attentive! He even had rear view mirrors on the sides of his handlebars.. even before he could see me, he pulled to the right, and waved me through, I ended up hopping off my bike and chatting the gentlemen up as it turns out he also finds most mobility scooter users to be jerks! He's so attentive because often others will come zipping up on him and bump him nearly off the trail! Just goes to show.. there's good people and asshats everywhere. |
Originally Posted by RaleighSport
(Post 16808524)
That's also interesting especially if we apply the message you're implying to road use rather than MUP use, which technically speaking are supposed to be almost identical concepts.. just the type of traveling done varies.
Note that pedestrians and joggers listening to music on a MUP is "improper" or a "hazard" only in the eyes of obnoxious speed obsessed cyclists who believe they alone are entitled to enjoy the use of a MUP. |
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Post 16808507)
Why do some cyclists believe that every pedestrian (on a recreational path/trail where walking is permitted) is required to "react" in some way to obnoxious or loudmouth cyclists? What reaction do these bell ringing shouting cyclists expect? A bow or curtsey, perhaps? Why shouldn't pedestrians on a recreational path talk to each other or on a cell phone, or listen to their music?
Maybe speed happy cyclists should find another route, or perish the thought, slow down to a pace consistent with cycling amongst the many legitimate users of a MUP. One time on a MUT I slowed for, and didn't pass a jogger because we were approaching an intersection, just as I stopped and put my foot down, she flipped a U-turn around a bollard while looking at some sort of device and ran head on into me. Joggers with ear buds are a real hazard, they're oblivious to the world around them, and do U-turns without warning. From that and other experiences I've learned its best to alert folks I'm going to pass regardless of speed. Bicycles are silent and they may step into your path even if you have slowed all the way down. Lots of people say thank you or show appreciation for the warning, and it is a rule here in Washington, so its not simply self serving, its part of being a responsible, courteous trail user...........even for slowpokes like me. |
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Post 16808542)
Neither the OP nor the other posters specified that they shout, ring, toot, or honk only at improper use of the MUP like walking erratically or abreast all the way across the path. They apparently expect every pedestrian to react to their obnoxious behavior in order that they can maintain high speed on the MUP.
Note that pedestrians and joggers listening to music on a MUP is "improper" or a "hazard" only in the eyes of obnoxious speed obsessed cyclists who believe they alone are entitled to enjoy the use of a MUP. |
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Post 16808542)
Neither the OP nor the other posters specified that they shout, ring, toot, or honk only at improper use of the MUP like walking erratically or abreast all the way across the path. They apparently expect every pedestrian to react to their obnoxious behavior in order that they can maintain high speed on the MUP.
Note that pedestrians and joggers listening to music on a MUP is "improper" or a "hazard" only in the eyes of obnoxious speed obsessed cyclists who believe they alone are entitled to enjoy the use of a MUP. The one and only reason I "ding" at pedestrians is a courtesy so that they don't inadvertently jump into my path. What they actually do is up to them, and I deal with it as necessary. Obnoxious - some probably think so but many people thank me as I pass so I think that opinion is of the fringe. |
My wife and I walk on several MUPs, some of them fairly narrow as well. How we handle it, we walk FACING "traffic" just as if we were walking on a state highway with no sidewalks. This way, faster trail users overtaking us don't have to do anything, say anything, or move anywhere. They just keep doing what they are doing. Then should we SEE other trail users closing in on us from the front side we simply look over our shoulder to see if anyone is coming up from behind us. If the coast is clear, we step to the right side of the trail and let the cyclists approaching from up front keep their line and lane. As soon as they pass we move back to the left side facing traffic. If there are cyclists coming up in front and behind us we just step off the trail momentarily and let everyone get past, then resume our peaceful walk. We are not counting on hearing anything. We could have music blowing our eardrums out. We LOOK OUT for other trail users, which is ridiculously easy to do on foot. An MUP is the same as any other roadway shared by foot traffic and wheeled traffic as far as I am concerned.
And THIS^^ is how I expect all pedestrians to act on MUPs. Wish in one hand, spit in the other, and see which one fills up first. Some here might find this video of mine fun regarding how most people in my town use MUPs. |
Originally Posted by JoeyBike
(Post 16808607)
How we handle it, we walk FACING "traffic" just as if we were walking on a state highway with no sidewalks.
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Post 16808542)
Note that pedestrians and joggers listening to music on a MUP is "improper" or a "hazard" only in the eyes of obnoxious speed obsessed cyclists who believe they alone are entitled to enjoy the use of a MUP.
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Originally Posted by dynodonn
(Post 16808774)
......why I crashed on a blind turn, at a very low speed on one of our MUPs....trying to avoid two peds walking "facing traffic", and one of the main reasons why I now avoid riding on our local MUPs.
If everyone at least TRIES to be courteous there would be very few problems in MUPs. Trouble is, almost everyone on those things are entitled j@ck@$$3$ with their heads in the clouds or unwilling to slow down for a moment. |
Originally Posted by JoeyBike
(Post 16808847)
Do you think the outcome would have been any different if their backs were turned to you?
Oh hell yeah, I figured if they were walking away from me, then the closing speed would have been closer to 4mph than 10mph. |
Nearly had two accidents in Central Park NY today. Nearly toasted myself when some idiot pulls his bike @ a 90 degree angle into my line. The ____t nearly takes out another roadie who is also riding my track. If at all possible I need to get back to the North Shore where I can have the road to myself.
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Originally Posted by dynodonn
(Post 16808865)
Oh hell yeah, I figured if they were walking away from me, then the closing speed would have been closer to 4mph than 10mph.
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