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Helmets cramp my style

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Helmets cramp my style

Old 01-12-07, 12:21 PM
  #951  
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I haven't seen where anyone is "promoting not wearing a helmet".

I do see where some, including myself, ask about the true safety of wearing one.
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Old 01-12-07, 12:30 PM
  #952  
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Originally Posted by jwc
I haven't seen where anyone is "promoting not wearing a helmet".

I do see where some, including myself, ask about the true safety of wearing one.
Agreed - my problem is with the nazis and nannies who not only promote wearing them, but also look down their noses at anyone who chooses not to, question their intelligence and otherwise make asses of themselves.
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Old 01-12-07, 12:32 PM
  #953  
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Originally Posted by jwc
I haven't seen where anyone is "promoting not wearing a helmet".

I do see where some, including myself, ask about the true safety of wearing one.
My choice of words may not be right, but then again the language used and information closetbiker provides suggest that using a helmet while cycling is 'misguided', only for 'social reasons', and gives a wrong image of cycling - taken as a whole they only promote the idea that one should strongly consider not wearing one while cycling. But you are right it has never been said: 'don't wear one.'

Al
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Old 01-12-07, 12:34 PM
  #954  
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Originally Posted by chipcom
You still haven't responded to post #939. I figure because you can't.
I haven't responded because I probably haven't read it. Geez, didn't know I was supposed to read & respond to every thing you post. Give me a break. Give me a ****ing min. & I'll read it & think about & maybe consider responding.
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Old 01-12-07, 12:52 PM
  #955  
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Originally Posted by chipcom
If you don't think cycling is dangerous, why do you feel the need to not only wear a helmet, but also pass out organ donor cards to those who don't, call those who don't foolish, darwin candidates, apt to need taxpayer paid medical support and other such nonsense? You wear a helmet because you are afraid of getting a head injury if you don't, as opposed to other activities where you don't have that fear. If you want to prove me wrong, try supporting your claim with something more than the usual horsepucky.
First of all ******* the organ donor cards are no longer passed out by ANYONE, get it?!!! So get the **** off of that!!!

I wear a helmet because I do not want a head injury or as severe of an injury that I could receive with out one. BUT I do NOT think cycling is dangerous. Oh & if I participated in other sports, like roller blading, football, hockey, soccer, etc. where protective gear is available or recommended to be used I would use it.

Would you?

Fear has nothing to do with it, I am not afraid of anything, or I'm afraid of very little.

Me calling those that do not wear a helmet foolish, darwin award winners, etc. is nothing mroe then my opinion. You know what is said about opinions don't you? The same thing that is said about excuses. They are like *******s, everybody has one & they all usually stink!

My personal experience of a helmet protecting me from injury or more serious injury & death is the only way I can prove you wrong, but more importantly to prove to myself a helmet is worth having & using.

I don't pay much creedence to statistics, instead rely on personal experience, but recognize they do have a place.
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Old 01-12-07, 02:17 PM
  #956  
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
My choice of words may not be right, but then again the language used and information closetbiker provides suggest that using a helmet while cycling is 'misguided', only for 'social reasons', and gives a wrong image of cycling - taken as a whole they only promote the idea that one should strongly consider not wearing one while cycling. But you are right it has never been said: 'don't wear one.'

Al
It's funny what some people read into things.

Laying out a realistic picture as to how often cyclists are treated for head injuries and relating the limitations on the upper limits for helmets from manafactures is viewed differently by different people.

I'd say I'm trying to clarify a situation rather than muddy it with poor information.
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Old 01-12-07, 02:18 PM
  #957  
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I have read the statistics. One of the more interesting ones are about when helmets started being used in cycling more & more in the early 1990's the amount of head injuries increased. One stat. claims the reason for this is maybe those that wear helmets have a false sense of security with wearing a helmettherefore have more accidents, have head injuries as a result & that helmet do no good at all at protecting the head.

I'l give partial credit that maybe, just maybe in the early 1990's there was a false sense of security when people wore a helmet. But I have serious doubts. Also I want to know what proof exists to back this stat. up.

Also I think the records that show the increase in head injuries after helmets were being used more & more were not being kept prior to the early 1990's with a mention of helmet usage. Then all of a sudden the records show an increase in head injuries that corrolates with an increase in helmet usage.

I am not saying there were no records kept of head injuries, but prior to the 1990's I do not think there there were records kept that showed any kind of relation between the 2.

Hmm, gee, sounds the helmet opponents came up with this stat. to prove their point that helmets do not work at all to protect against injury, despite the many testimonials that prove they do. I wonder who has an agenda now?
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Old 01-12-07, 02:20 PM
  #958  
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Originally Posted by chipcom
Agreed - my problem is with the nazis and nannies who not only promote wearing them, but also look down their noses at anyone who chooses not to, question their intelligence and otherwise make asses of themselves.
I don't look down my nose at those that don't wear one. I just think it foolish not to. There is a differance.

Oh and thanks for your opinion on that you think those that do make asses of themselves. Remember what I said about opinions?
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Old 01-12-07, 02:50 PM
  #959  
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Originally Posted by jwc
I can give you my idea why wearing a helmet is accepted now.

Because myself and my fellow shop workers, during the 1980's, made it so.
Another element in the mix is Bicycling Magazine which will not feature or even display a lidless cyclist, and hasn't since the early 90's. The same time when the magazine started featuring full page ads for same.
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Old 01-12-07, 03:00 PM
  #960  
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Originally Posted by closetbiker
It's funny what some people read into things.

Laying out a realistic picture as to how often cyclists are treated for head injuries and relating the limitations on the upper limits for helmets from manafactures is viewed differently by different people.

I'd say I'm trying to clarify a situation rather than muddy it with poor information.
Hey I appreciate what you are doing. I also don't follow much on this thread and only have read some of what you and others have posted.

I do mostly wear a helmet, but don't think about it much, nor care what others do. Its required for all the club riding I do.

As to requiring for club rides, legal reason aside, I think its probably better for club dynamics - it levels/neutralizes the social aspect of helmet wearing within the club and folks can focus on other more important safety issues.

Al
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Old 01-12-07, 03:07 PM
  #961  
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Anecdotal information is cute, but proves nothing. Statistics maybe invalid, based on the criteria used to select - but generally mean something.

There are more than a few people out there that will tell you that you can heal yourself using XYZ fruit - because Aunt Tilly did, and so of course it is true.
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Old 01-12-07, 03:20 PM
  #962  
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Originally Posted by N_C
To me anything that can help protect you even from the slightest of injuries is worth while to use.
Then put a chain and padlock on your bicycle and never take it off.
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Old 01-12-07, 03:33 PM
  #963  
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Originally Posted by N_C
First of all ******* the organ donor cards are no longer passed out by ANYONE, get it?!!! So get the **** off of that!!!

I wear a helmet because I do not want a head injury or as severe of an injury that I could receive with out one. BUT I do NOT think cycling is dangerous. Oh & if I participated in other sports, like roller blading, football, hockey, soccer, etc. where protective gear is available or recommended to be used I would use it.

Would you?

Fear has nothing to do with it, I am not afraid of anything, or I'm afraid of very little.

Me calling those that do not wear a helmet foolish, darwin award winners, etc. is nothing mroe then my opinion. You know what is said about opinions don't you? The same thing that is said about excuses. They are like *******s, everybody has one & they all usually stink!

My personal experience of a helmet protecting me from injury or more serious injury & death is the only way I can prove you wrong, but more importantly to prove to myself a helmet is worth having & using.

I don't pay much creedence to statistics, instead rely on personal experience, but recognize they do have a place.

So you don't think cycling is dangerous, but you are worried about getting head injuries if you don't wear a helmet? That's like saying you believe having unprotected sex with a stranger isn't dangerous, but you wear a condom because you don't want to get AIDS or get a gal pregnant. You obviously think there is a high enough risk of head injury if you don't wear a helmet, so logic dictates that you think cycling is dangerous. How about just admitting it rather than ranting and raving like a looney toon?

BTW, you wanted to pass out organ donor cards, even posted your desire to do so here in BF, so don't get so huffy when we remind you of it, over and over again.
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Old 01-12-07, 03:40 PM
  #964  
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Originally Posted by N_C
I don't look down my nose at those that don't wear one. I just think it foolish not to. There is a differance.

Oh and thanks for your opinion on that you think those that do make asses of themselves. Remember what I said about opinions?
So you don't think gleefully posting your harebrained scheme to pass out organ donor cards to people who opted not to wear helmets was looking down your nose or making an ass of yourself? You think using the word 'foolish' to describe the preferences of others isn't looking down your nose and making an ass of yourself? No wonder you are such a beloved figure in BF.
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Old 01-12-07, 04:10 PM
  #965  
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Originally Posted by chipcom
So you don't think gleefully posting your harebrained scheme to pass out organ donor cards to people who opted not to wear helmets was looking down your nose or making an ass of yourself?
No.

Originally Posted by chipcom
You think using the word 'foolish' to describe the preferences of others isn't looking down your nose and making an ass of yourself?
No.
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Old 01-12-07, 04:15 PM
  #966  
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Originally Posted by N_C
No.

No.
Well it's not like that surprises anyone.
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Old 01-12-07, 04:52 PM
  #967  
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Originally Posted by chipcom
So you don't think cycling is dangerous, but you are worried about getting head injuries if you don't wear a helmet?
No, yes.

Originally Posted by chipcom
Something about ****ing. You obviously think there is a high enough risk of head injury if you don't wear a helmet, so logic dictates that you think cycling is dangerous.
No, I do not think there is a higher risk if I do not wear a helmet. In fact the risks depend upon the enviroment I ride in. Compare say a 25 mph, 2 lane residential street that has less then 100 vehicles a day that use it, to an arterial 45 mph, 4 lane divided roadway in a major commercial district with an average of 3,000 vehicles a day that use it. To me the more traffic the higher the risk of an accident occuring. But it does not make cycling dangerous. Just that certain enviroments can have higher traffic & differant road hazards then others. And wearing a helmet does help protect my head IF there is an accident, regardless if it is a collision with a motorist or a single bike accident because of a road hazard such as storm grate, crack, bumps, etc.

Do me a favor DO NOT ****ING TELL ME WHAT I DO & DO NOT THINK!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by chipcom
BTW, you wanted to pass out organ donor cards, even posted your desire to do so here in BF, so don't get so huffy when we remind you of it, over and over again.
That was then, this is now, idjit.
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Old 01-12-07, 05:07 PM
  #968  
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Originally Posted by N_C
DO NOT ****ING TELL ME WHAT I DO & DO NOT THINK!!!!!!!!
What does ****ING mean?
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Old 01-12-07, 07:02 PM
  #969  
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Originally Posted by chipcom
Well it's not like that surprises anyone.
and that pulls us back to the comments made a couple of pages ago and how this topic brings out a certain element.

Makes an analytical and unbiased approach to understanding impossible.

I can only guess if this is the type of responses this topic raises, there must be to something to the points being made and being objected to.
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Old 01-12-07, 07:26 PM
  #970  
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Originally Posted by N_C
No, yes.



No, I do not think there is a higher risk if I do not wear a helmet. In fact the risks depend upon the enviroment I ride in. Compare say a 25 mph, 2 lane residential street that has less then 100 vehicles a day that use it, to an arterial 45 mph, 4 lane divided roadway in a major commercial district with an average of 3,000 vehicles a day that use it. To me the more traffic the higher the risk of an accident occuring. But it does not make cycling dangerous. Just that certain enviroments can have higher traffic & differant road hazards then others. And wearing a helmet does help protect my head IF there is an accident, regardless if it is a collision with a motorist or a single bike accident because of a road hazard such as storm grate, crack, bumps, etc.

Do me a favor DO NOT ****ING TELL ME WHAT I DO & DO NOT THINK!!!!!!!!

That was then, this is now, idjit.
I think your own words make it pretty evident who the idjit is. You don't think cycling is dangerous, yet you are afraid of getting hurt if you don't wear your helmet. In a nutshell you don't think cycling is dangerous AS LONG AS YOU WEAR A HELMET. Why don't you just say it, instead of rambling on and getting all hot and bothered.

Oh, and I firmly believe that you are no different now that you were then, but as any wannabe politician, you want to try to change your image so it plays better in Peoria. Sorry pal, you walk like a duck and quack like a duck, so no matter how you try to disguise it, you're probably still a duck.
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Old 01-12-07, 07:31 PM
  #971  
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Originally Posted by closetbiker
and that pulls us back to the comments made a couple of pages ago and how this topic brings out a certain element.

Makes an analytical and unbiased approach to understanding impossible.

I can only guess if this is the type of responses this topic raises, there must be to something to the points being made and being objected to.
Exactly, it's like discussing religion with 'true believers'...they are so weak in their faith that any objective discussion that questions their beliefs scares the crap out of them and drives them to rave like lunatics in an attempt to protect their perception of moral superiority.

Of course my enjoyment of driving them to even greater heights of lunacy probably doesn't help either.
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Old 01-12-07, 08:03 PM
  #972  
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Originally Posted by chipcom
I think your own words make it pretty evident who the idjit is. You don't think cycling is dangerous, yet you are afraid of getting hurt if you don't wear your helmet. In a nutshell you don't think cycling is dangerous AS LONG AS YOU WEAR A HELMET. Why don't you just say it, instead of rambling on and getting all hot and bothered.

Oh, and I firmly believe that you are no different now that you were then, but as any wannabe politician, you want to try to change your image so it plays better in Peoria. Sorry pal, you walk like a duck and quack like a duck, so no matter how you try to disguise it, you're probably still a duck.
I don't know how else to put this. I am NOT afraid of being hurt. I don't want to get hurt, but I'm not afraid of it happening. I wear a helmet just in case I have an accident & my head impacts something that could injure me. An accident is usually caused by unpredictable, the unforeseen & unknown things that no one can do anything about until it is too late. When that happens & I have an accident on my bike & just in case my head impacts something I like to have the helmet on to help prevent injury. In other words I don't like pain, I'm not afraid of it but I don't want to be in or feel pain, such as that can be caused from a impact to the head. If I was afraid I'd never participate in cycling. In fact I'd probably stay indoors, become a recluse & never leave to do anything.

Answer this if you would. When you ride, do you like to have things predictable & do you like to know when & where things are going to happen & control the situation so it ends up happening how you want it to & get the desired result you are satisfied with? I am not talking about every aspect of your life, but only cycling. I am talking about the traffic you encounter when you ride, the road & weather conditions, etc. This should be a simple yes or no answer. Somehow I think it will be a little more complex then that. Maybe parts of this answer are yes & parts are no, if that is the case then please explain.

If others wish to answer this question, please do.

You want to know what I am afraid of? That if I don't wear my helmet & I have an accident, impact my head & do manage to survive that I will be a vegatible or in a coma, or I will need permenant help doing simple daily things like tying my shoes. That is what scares me. I do not want my family do go through that kind of burden. So if I can do something to help prevent it then I will & do.
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Old 01-12-07, 08:14 PM
  #973  
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Chipcom,

Why don't you wear a helmet?
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Old 01-12-07, 08:45 PM
  #974  
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The problem is you cannot prevent injury by wearing a helmet. You cannot prevent brain damage from occuring by wearing a helmet. My injury occurred without my head impacting anything. Yet, it took months for me to recover.

Based on my experience, I fear more for those who believe the helmet "saved" them and do not see a doctor after an accident, than I do for those who do not ride with a helmet.

Also, based on my experience, I do not take too seriously a comment from a paramedic or ER doctor...who states as fact that death would have been the result if a helmet had not been present....since I had a brain injury and each missed all the symptons and signs. If they don't understand brain injuries and how they occur, their remarks are simply opinion. For me, since I had no external injury, the doctors I first visited believed I had no head injury and released me.
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Old 01-12-07, 08:53 PM
  #975  
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This has led me to wonder why my daughter fears riding a bike.

When I bought her first bike, her grandmother bought her a helmet, elbow pads, and knee pads and wouldn't let her ride without them. Her grandmother also drilled in to her that riding without those would be dangerous and she could get very badly hurt. Grandma wouldn't even let me take the training wheels off the bike when I felt it was time for her to leave them behind. In the interest of keeping peace within the family, I didn't contradict my mother inlaw and if you knew my mother inlaw, you'd know why.

So, now my daughter will ice skate without a helmet, something I consider more dangerous than biking, but will not go near a bicycle. It saddens me to think that just because I didn't want to PO grandma, my daughter will never understand the joys of cycling.
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