so I had a heated discussion with a bosses about cyclists
 

I'm pretty upset and I need to unload this.

My boss was talking about how he got a ticket for running a stop sign. I pointed out he's always *****ing about bikes failing to stop and he turns it into a joke and we banter about it. I remind him in a few more weeks the 3 foot law goes into effect.

Next thing I know my other boss comes up hell bent on *****ing about how cyclists need to stop weaving (ie like a foot sized weave). Apparently a cyclist next to her was weaving a little bit going down the road with no helmet and a bag and it upset her so she started yelling at me. I said most likely he felt threatened and he was claiming space and since you moved over it worked. She said that needs to stop and I said no, it works. If it concerns you then you are simply too close. She went off about it.

I then pointed out how there's no helmet law in Cali for anyone above 18 so I wasn't sure what the problem is. She said it's because she's tired of being afraid and getting "heart attacks" because she's not sure what they are doing. I simply pointed out- if he's going down the road that's where he's headed. Then she got really silly and told me that we need to stop avoiding potholes because that too is unfair. I said the law is that we stay as far right as practicable and at that moment the far right is left of the danger- hitting a pot hole could cause him to loose balance and fall into traffic killing him. If it is a problem, try giving more space. But she can't because she has trouble telling what 3 feet is. This is in Cali by the way.

She wasn't just talking she was like high pitched upset voice. I tried to calm her down and I just finally lost it and told her I feel bad that this bothers her but I am not about to sacrifice my life simply because the idea of cyclists offends you. By that time I was yelling and mocking her. She's an intelligent lawyer, went to a top law school and graduated in the top of her class. And suddenly she's turned in to a zombie driver preferring her not having "heart attacks" to me possibly dying.

I usually find it best not to get into arguments where i defend the actions of unknown others. Plus you will never win an argument based on and emotional outburst. Fear and emotion will always trump logic. You would have better served to back off.

It didn't start out like that. At first I thought she was joking. She went from joking to all out hatred in just a few seconds- she was in front of my cubicle and my other boss was waiting for something from me. I picked up a piece of paper and basically had to shield my face to end it and that caused her to back off. I just don't get it though, the idea that she thinks that cyclists have a duty not to swerve because it "gives her a heart attack". :notamused:

Bad day at work! Some days.... we get the bear. Other days the bear gets us. You screwed-up. You made it clear that you're a cyclist 1st and an employee (at least) 2nd. Not good.... unless you're joining the racing team soon anyway.

Next time.... I'd confess shame at being associated with the behavior of some of those other cyclist. Jobs are about earning money. Cycling advocacy, religion, politics and a few other topics are best reserved for conversations with friends.... NOT coworkers.

I'm with Dave on this one. I just agree with whatever they say and get back to business.

Didn't see the cyclist in question or how much swerving was going on but I take "swerve" as being more than just a slight weave. Part of sharing the road is riding predictably. You hold your line in any group ride, why wouldn't you do it in traffic. If you need more room, you don't swerve back and forth, you signal and take the lane if doing so is safer than staying to the right. I ride and drive and I would be less than impressed if I was passing a cyclist with due care and 3-foot clearance and he/she suddenly swerved toward my front fender. Even if a driver is cyclist friendly, how can you expect them to judge 3-feet if you are swerving unpredictably (again I take the word swerve to mean a significant deviation in course). Riders who appear to be daydreaming or in poor control of their bikes make everyone nervous just as distracted drivers wandering in their lanes do.

When it comes to avoiding obstacles, you still can't just randomly swerve in front of faster moving traffic. Even good, cycle friendly drivers need time and space to react and can't always just move over if there is close or oncoming traffic.

Sorry, but I think the 3 foot law is another regulaton that won't be obeyed in CA. When was the last time you saw a driver do more than just slow down for a stop sign here? How often do you see CA drivers jump on the gas pedal as soon as the light turns yellow, and blow through an intersection? How many times have you seen 3 more cars make a left turn after the arrow turns to red?

I could go on and on...

so I had a heated discussion with a bosses about cyclists
 

Life is too short to argue with fools.

I would have just glared at her. She got a big fat, monstrous 'F' for that bonehead position. Because she obviously doesn't care about cyclists' rights on the road.

I think the whole mentality of 'claiming space' and being all militant about 'rights' to this and that, demanding laws be put in place so that we can look for them being broken and then complain, causes so many unnecessary problems. Most of these negative incidents that people experience are not due to lack of laws or regulations, it's just bad attitudes on the part of one or all involved. And law doesn't fix bad attitudes, it makes them worse.
When I'm driving a car and I see a cyclist, I give them a comfortable space as I pass and if necessary slow right down and wait to pass them, I think as if I am that cyclist for a moment. If I'm riding a bike I think of the drivers around me and make sure I stay on a consistent line and don't try to own the road or do anything that will cause the driver a problem, I think as if I am that driver for a moment.
It's really very simple to make the world a nicer, calmer and trouble free place, without all the constant stupidness. Each individual has to look to change themselves rather than looking to blame others for everything. Think of the position of others rather than being in the mind of 'me' all the time.

We'll get there eventually.

And your next job will be . . . . ?

I get dodging potholes, but I totally understand being pissed at unpredictable vehicles(pedals or engined). Her being worried is actually kind of a good thing, really. It means she's aware of the cyclist.

I really get her concern about the cyclist weaving - it makes it so much harder to judge the 3' clearance. Wouldn't want to give that cyclist 37" by mistake. :rolleyes:

As for your boss - Maybe she needs a dose of empathy for cyclists in her life. Get your co-staff to buy her a road bike for her birthday or St. Thomas More day or somesuch. And a helmet.

At your place of employment do you get many opportunities to grade your boss or anybody else higher up the management-foodchain than yourself? Give a demonstrative "big fat, monstrous 'F'" on a non work related issue and I assume you won't get any more chances.

No. But that is beside the point. The point I was making. Was that they had a law degree and they should know the traffic law.

BS. Its that kind of thinking that allows companies to get away with unethical practices, because their workers are too afraid to stand up to their moral standards and communicate what they believe in to their bosses. My advice is the opposite: work for people you like, people you trust, people you share ideals with and you'll enjoy life. Don't take crap from someone just because they pay you for a job.

TLDR: "We live in a society!" (as George from Seinfeld would say).

Often employers actually do have a department that reviews and guides management with ethical decisions and/or directions. I didn't get the impression from the OP that was/is the department he works in. Maybe... if that is the field he wants to work in he will ask for a transfer.

Expressing moral approval or disapproval..... making decisions as to [or if] a fellow coworkers "thoughts" are morally right or wrong.... is called preaching (or sermonizing). Often.... people who don't have an active spiritual life replace that need in their life with a made-up religion often with political, popular, or trendy ideas and/or components. Then... seemingly without realizing what they are actually doing.... go out unto the world to spread the gospel of their [made-up] religion.

All humans have physical, intellectual, and spiritual sides. As important as exercise and proper diet is... it is only one side of what we need to maintain to remain healthy and happy. As humans... we also need to mature, grow, and continually learn to feed our intellectual side. We also can't neglect our spiritual side ether. Or else we end-up preaching whatever "made-up religion" we appoint ourselves the religious leader of (or worse).

Over the years (I am retired now) speaking with some fellow workers in he lunchroom or whatever meant entering into their own special church of.... pet neutering, tree saving, recycling, political movements.... and yes even bicycling. These people always seemed "challenged" by social interactions normally expected in the workplace. It was never considered a good thing. I would try to avoid being the "cycling-deacon" in the office.

Let me get this straight, you have 2 bosses, AND you can yell at them?

If a 1 foot weave was a problem for her, she probably wasn't giving 3 feet of space as required by law. If she doesn't know where the right hand side of her car is, she needs to find an empty parking lot and get some practice in.

Some times it does not matter if you are right, especially in a pointless argument. Smile and turn away.

IMO, a big part of the problem is motorist's general ignorance of the realities of cycling and the rules governing sharing the road with cyclists. IMO, broader education and continued awareness programs could help. It should be part of all driver's ed, traffic school, and any licensing testing. Continued awareness programs could include radio and TV spots, print ads, billboards (existing, not new), etc...

Tell her I am doing my part to keep her from having a heart attack behind the wheel. I run all of the red lights so I can ride in the gaps in traffic created by those red lights and I ride fast enough to prevent cars from overtaking me most of the time. There are many days I get to work with ZERO auto passes and I almost NEVER give three feet (often more like 3 inches) while splitting lanes past all of the "super intelligent" people rotting in traffic.

...:rolleyes:...Maybe don't tell her that...

Like you, I just needed to get that off my chest.

Weaving is bad. If there are potholes, ride a line that lets you avoid them. Drivers like straight lines, even if it means the rider is farther into the lane.

I agree with your boss. Weaving makes a cyclist unpredictable. She could be giving 3' of space, and then the cyclist swerves to avoid some debris and closes that gap to 1'. Put yourself in her position. Wouldn't that be scary?

Years ago, I had a former supervisor go off on a rant about how bicyclists are stupid, never follow the rules of the road and that I shouldn't be allowed to ride on the road, much less get a special rack in the loading dock.

I told him that I welcomed his opinion and walked away.

Work is not the place to get into debates or arguments about that stuff.

I spent the last six months driving a car in a city full of cyclists. If I see a cyclist up ahead I automatically 1. Change lanes immediately or 2. Slow TFDown until I can safely do #1 . Never had a cyclist give me a heart attack and I passed thousands. My "fellow" motorists on the other hand...