Hypno Toad

I'd say everything you state about helmets can be said about seat belts (if your helmet interferes with your sight, you're doing it wrong). My wife is short, for years seat belts would be on her neck, she was experiencing that. My daughter stress out about the seat belt retention locking up, and therefore has a real skill at getting them to lock up, she experiences that.

Back to my point, somehow bike helmets make people feel biking is dangerous and seat belts in cars do not have this affect on people. sheepeople.

Dave Cutter

Many years ago I dated a lady that worked for a company that made child car seats (among other items). The division she worked in.... which was compliance and legal and accounted for the priciest part of the car seats. Layers of compliance regulations and the proper documentation of said compliance was an entire department of people. Plus an in house legal department specialized in dealing with the regular suits due to accidents/injuries.

Hypno Toad

Very good point! I wasn't thinking about our litigious society, that's clearly a major expense.

I-Like-To-Bike

Packaging, assembly, shipping, warehousing, misc. overhead. And then you get into distribution which adds more shipping, warehousing, and overhead, don't cost any more for a $50-200 helmet than any $15 helmet available at the big box outlet. Nor do the more expensive helmets provide any better protection, only more markup/profits to the merchandisers up and down the distribution line.

Perhaps advertising costs promoting brand recognition and monetary "incentives" paid to media outlets and retailers may be more for the pricey name brand products.

I-Like-To-Bike

Do you have any references for your conjuring about the "major expenses" of legal and R&D costs for "top manufacturers" of name brand helmets?

Hypno Toad

I have no real information. I have some history with test systems, reference this Giro and MIPS video:

The test systems featured in this video are very expensive, based on working in the test equipment industry for 10 years, these systems are easy $50,000 and can quickly get over $150,000. Add to that, the staff that runs these test systems are highly trained engineers and get paid well. Lastly, you need to keep a facility to house the systems.

I have no knowledge of the money spent on legal. But everything I've read makes it clear this is a big cost for anybody working with safety equipment.

I-Like-To-Bike

Doesn't seem like that much money for a company to spend with annual helmet sales estimated at over 11 million units a year. Ya think it might add up to one dollar of expense per helmet sold?

Note that Giro is wholly owned by Easton-Bell Sports which is wholly owned by a private equity firm which normally releases no figures on its world wide helmet sales.

Background info about Giro ownership and estimated helmet sales figures is posted below.


US-Based Bicycle Helmet Manufacturers - Old Data!
In 2004 Bell Sports was purchased by Fenway Partners, a private-equity holding company. The Giro part of Bell was included. Through Fenway, Bell Sports in early 2005 repurchased the Bell motorcycle helmet manufacturing company that it had spun off in 1991. Then Bell merged with Riddell, known as a football helmet maker. In 2006 Riddell Bell merged with Easton Sports, and became Easton-Bell Sports, owned by Fenway Partners, Jim Easton, and The Ontario Teachers Pension Fund.

The Market for Bicycle Helmets
In the September 1, 2010 issue of Bicycle Retailer and Industry News, Easton-Bell's Greg Shapleigh is quoted saying that they sold 11 million helmets in 2009 "across all brands and categories." That would include bike, hockey, football, snow and baseball helmets, but BRAIN reported that "the majority of those were for cycling."

mconlonx

Misc. overhead would include things like marketing/advertising.

Lots of variable costs with different helmet models means that different, higher-end models will indeed cost more to produce than any $15 helmet. Less being manufactured means a higher production cost. Usually with more costly materials and finish, more/different packaging and assembly. And I don't usually see advertising for $15 helmets in industry media, but I've seen all kinds of ad buys for top of the line stuff.

There are more expensive helmets which supposedly provide better protection, unless you are writing off MIPS system as an unproven marketing gimmick.

The markup is the same for top of the line helmets as it is for entry level helmets. And while profits on a dollar basis will be bigger, on a percentage basis, again, the same for the high end $200 helmet as the $40 entry level helmet.

I-Like-To-Bike

Advertising costs and marketing "incentives" to retailers were already noted as likely higher for the pricey models. Of course these add no value to the user unless brand names promote some sort of self esteem boost for the weak minded.

What makes you think that the pricey models use more costly materials and finish, packaging or assembly?

MMACH 5

Since the OP started the thread with his opinion of how helmets make cycling seem dangerous, this thread will end up there on it's own merit, regardless of how others reply.

Dave Cutter

I worked in the safety equipment industry decades ago. Even back then our product liability insurance was about the same as our material costs. And a large portion of the material cost.... was from their product liability. Regulation and legal costs aren't side issues in manufacturing.

Hopefully there is plenty of profit in bicycle helmet sales. But I'd be surprised if a LBS owner jumps in and confirms that.

yugyug

Your insistence on equating seat belts and helmets and not thinking about their differences is why you don't understand their different effects on the perception of danger. Its important to understand that people don't rationalise their perception of danger or even consciously consider it. Affects work bodily, and its from thinking about how products, systems and experiences work on the body that larger social affects becomes understandable. This conversation is not about proving that helmets make cycling seem dangerous by society - thats the work of statistics, if anything - but rather about understanding why helmets make cycling seem dangerous.

Hypno Toad

I'm redirecting this conversation to https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...hread-348.html - We have hijacked this thread from the OP question and created another helmet thread. Nobody needs that. Please continue this conversation on THE helmet thread. Thanks!

Mark Stone

Thread closed.