TwoWheelWonder

Exactly what I was thinking. Emergency vehicles generally have "flashing" lights to get driver's attention. It's effective and driving with a condition that can cause seizures is clearly a danger to the public so her reasoning is flawed.

My personal opinion is that flashing lights are a good thing. At night a very bright front flashing light is probably inappropriate. Red rear flashing lights I just don't have a problem with. As a driver I've had trouble seeing the road with very bright front lights on bicycles. During the day, or the shoulder hours (dusk and dawn), be as bright and as obnoxious as you can be. Just my humble thoughts on the subject.

That said I do think that most states have laws against flashing lights at night. Not sure if they tend to give bicycles an exception or not. e.g. I considered getting a "flashing" front light on my motorcycle. These units are pretty common and simply alternate between high and low beam. All of the commercial units that do this have sensors to detect ambient light as most states allow it during the day, but explicitly make it illegal to do it at night.

mrodgers

Indeed, interesting. It's also interesting that because I or any other driver do not hang out the window yelling at these folks mean I or other drivers are not annoyed by it. In reality, I would be hugely annoyed as I am trying to see and to do that, I would be required to shield my eyes and look away from said anyone with annoying overly brilliant flashing lights.

RidingMatthew

i have run my supposed 2000 lumen led light on flash since i have had it during the day while riding. I would turn it off on the greenway although I did have people almost run into me with it off.

This thread has made me reconsider and I think I might run it on low or med in the dusk conditions. I do have to say that during the day I know my light has caught drivers attention and stopped them from doing something dumb and running me over. It will make my battery last longer too.

GeneO 

Ditto. I only using flashing mode in dim light where you are most invisible to drivers. Not at night. And the same declination as night light - down to see the road.

scroca

Thank you.

katzenfinch

There is such a thing as Target Fixation, which is when a flashing light attracts the attention of a driver who focuses on it then drives into it. I use Busch & Müller lights, which do not blink (blinking lights are illegal in Germany, where B&M lights are made).

Bicycle Quarterly has done a post on Target Fixation, which may be found here: When More Visible ? Safer: Target Fixation | Off The Beaten Path

I-Like-To-Bike

True, there is such a "thing" as Target Fixation; and the referenced article from Bicycle Quarterly hits every urban legend and rumor on the topic without citing any data or facts about the actual degree of risk to cyclists or anybody else on the road from the phenomenon.

The suggestion to turn off rear lights when cycling on a shoulder for protection from the alleged danger of target fixation borders on idiocy.

Mark Stone

I agree. I don't have any studies to prove either way, but I do have 40+ years experience cycling on the roads. The last ten years I've used flashing red lights at times - and other times not. My experience is that with the flasher(s) cars definitely steer wider, day or night.

katzenfinch

If you scroll to the bottom of the BQ story you’ll find a link: Visual Expert Human Factors: Is The Moth Effect Real? . Near the bottom of that linked page is a list of references.

acidfast7

I do find this ironic after you called me out, so I do think you're getting what you deserve in the thread, but I think you've had enough and wish that people would hit the literature and just prove you wrong with science.

Worknomore

I have never had a negative encounter regarding my Dinotte blinkies which I have used consistently for 5 years now. I have had several motorists roll down their windows while stopped at traffic signals and comment how far away they noticed my lights and saying what a good idea it is. I guess the haters are going to hate no matter what and if not us cyclists then the next in line. I don't much care for those super bright blueish headlamps found on some cars these days, but I don't go screaming out the window about it.

acidfast7

I think the difference BF members are not making is between:

1. Gaining the attention of the driver
2. Facilitating the driver being able to make an accurate distance measurement

It seems like more rural Americans are really concerned about 1. Living in England now, I'm much more concerned about 2 because the traffic density is extremely high and the road network is still very medieval with respect to narrow single lanes on each side of the road.

I also believe, but don't have data for, in the concept that people who cycle occasionally but don't commute pay more attention to cyclists during their daily auto commute. I'd wager that it would be fair to say that more in England cycle compared to people in the US?

PatrickGSR94

I run my Cygolite ExpiliOn 700 in "daytime flash" mode in daylight hours only. No one has ever told me it's too bright. My dad regularly tells me how much of a great idea he thinks it is and that he's glad I use it.

But I also have it aimed at the road. At night on steady beam, it's aimed so that the hot spot in the center of the beam extends out about 100-200 feet in front of me. But at night or in a group, I always use the steady beam modes.

At dusk or dawn, I switch the light to the "night flash" mode which keeps the light on steady, and flashes off 3 times every couple of seconds. In the morning, once I cannot see the light beam on the road anymore, I will switch it to the Daytime Flash mode.

My rear Cygolite Hotshots (2 of them) run on steady or slow pulse at night or dawn hours, and both on random flash mode in daylight hours. Not strobing, just flashing in a random pattern.

*edit* oh yeah, I turn my headlight off completely in daylight hours on the MUP. Using a flashing front light on the MUP is dumb, annoying, and very inconsiderate IMHO.

MichaelW

I had the same "Photosensitive epilepsy" argument from 2 mentally unstable druggies/drunks.
Say what you like about druggies, they really know their drug-induced medical conditions.

Paul Barnard

I have read this thread with interest. There are a lot of points worthy of exploration. First let's talk about seizures. Anyone who may be in danger of going into a seizure upon seeing a flashing light has NO business on the road. There are a plethora of bright flashing lights that are common upon our roadways.

As far as the brightness of the OPs light in his incident, didn't he say the annoyed woman came from behind him? If so, she's just a nut job looking for a reason to complain.

There are a number of posters saying that flashing lights can be annoying. If they are annoying, that's one thing. If they are unsafe, that's a completely different ball game. One poster mentioned that buoys have flashing lights to help them stand out from the background lights. It can indeed be helpful to have them flashing. It must be noted though that they have a comparatively low luminous intensity. I spent 20 years running boats professionally. I know there is value to low intensity lights flashing to make them stand out from the background.

Each morning when I drive into work it is dark. The State Police normally have someone pulled over on I-310. Their LEDs are most assuredly annoying and in some ways they are unsafe. They are unsafe in that were there any road debris in the area, I wouldn't be able to see it. I also can't see the roadway beyond the lights well. I slow as I pass. But, the lights certainly do their job of warning me of the Troopers presence. Unsafe or annoyance or both? In my mind, it's both. In order to mitigate the associated risks, I slow down. Lots of motorists don't seem to like exercising that option for any reason.

I was cycling on our MUP one evening. A rider approached me with a flashing light that was so bright that I literally had to look down at the path immediately in front of my front tire to see. I don't know how different it would have been if it had burned steady at that intensity though. I suspect it would have affected my vision similarly. He had his directed dead ahead rather than down at an angle. I don't get why he felt he needed that lighting for the circumstances.

I'll drop a few quick summaries down for consideration.

Lights, be they flashing or steady, can be so bright that they create a safety hazard for other road users.

We should take time out to understand how our specific lights affect other road users. Modern bicycle lights can be VERY bright.

I don't care if other road users become annoyed with my light array as long as it doesn't create a safety hazard for them. The goal of my lighting is to see and be seen.

acidfast7

That's a stellar attitude.

If you pulled that in German urban area, you'd get a ticket, which is good, as I don't want to be flashed with your lights as a pedestrian or a motorist (or as another cyclist).

Actually, in most reasonable places, modern bicycle lights CAN'T be VERY bright because there are sensible laws regulating light pollution in a similar manner to auto headlights.

unterhausen

last weekend I drove through an intersection with flashing warning lights. They were far more annoying than any bicycle flashing lights I've ever seen. They had sped the flash frequency up considerably sometime in the previous 2 weeks since I had been though there before. Don't know if there really was a reason for them to do that, but somebody apparently thought there was.

acidfast7

I think a significant point is being missed here.

The flashing object you describe is stationary, a bicycle shouldn't be unless it's in a nice cafe.

Paul Barnard

Let me expound upon the quoted coment. It appears you have taken it out of the context in which I intended it to be taken. There are motorists who are annoyed at the mere presence of bicycles operating on roadways. There are motorists who are annoyed by my "Lance Armstrong" shorts. There are a multitude of petty reasons for motorists to be annoyed by bicycles on the road. For that reason, I make a distinction between and annoyance and something that is unsafe. If I let the annoyance of motorists dictate my actions, I'd never ride on the road. I will not create an unsafe condition for other motorists. If I use flashing lights, I use low intensity flashing lights where they are legal.

acidfast7

Fair enough.

I did bike commute in rural Texas of all places, when I lived in the US, and I didn't run into (m)any annoyed motorists. A lot of unsafe motorists, sure, but not annoyed motorists, to my knowledge.

Grey.

With respect, he's not in Germany. Neither is scroca, for that matter. The standards that apply to Germany do not apply to the United States, we have different drivers, different roads, and different conditions.

PatrickGSR94

Many motorists get annoyed at things without anyone outside the vehicle knowing about it. I was behind a tractor the other day for several minutes, about a mile, doing 15 MPH on a 55 MPH 2-lane road. Lots of other cars in line, also. I was a bit annoyed. He could have pulled over at subdivision entrance to let the cars pass, but he did not. But I just toodled along slowly until we were able to pass. I was annoyed, but still patient.

acidfast7

Sure, but why not strive to emulate the best.

If I want to become an American football player, I emulate NFL practices. This is based on roughly 100 years of evolution of the sport including fitness, strategy, safety, etc...

If I want to ride safely, I emulate the German, Dutch, Danish infrastructure system. The technologies/rules have been evolving for roughly 100 years. The reason that strobes aren't allowed is that it's very hard to measure distance (otherwise motorcycles would use them as they share just about every issue that a densely populated road network). It's not about being noticed, unless you're in the sticks, it's about interacting with traffic flow.

acidfast7

Then how do most people in this thread know that motorists are annoyed if they don't visibly demonstrate it?

Paul Barnard

I am active on boating an motorcycling forums. The bicycle threads that pop up on those forums bring out a lot of annoyed motorists! Those threads get lively.