Papa Tom

The papers in New York are abuzz today about the woman who was struck and killed by a cyclist in Central Park. I want to believe that the guy was riding responsibly and the woman happened to cross his path, distracted, at the wrong time. However, I see way too much reckless behavior on bicycles, particularly in the city, to close the case that quickly and easily.

The bottom line is that the NYPD issued a sh-tload of tickets to bicyclists today and announced a crackdown on cyclists that disobey traffic laws. I'm sure this will last about five minutes, but in the meantime, four separate people came up to me at work today and proceeded to deride bicyclists and their out-of-control behavior. This is going to be a tough week.

What do you think? Is kamikaze cycling as out of control as it appears to me...and do we need to take drastic action?

wolfchild

You can believe whatever you want...I believe that it was the cyclist who was distracted or just riding like a complete jackass. If that cyclist was responsible then they would of never hit and killed a pedestrian...We had a similar thing happen in my city few years ago. Some guy on a BSO riding on a narrow sidewalk and hitting and killing an old women. He left his bike and fled the scene of an accident but was later arrested. He got 2 years in jail. The worst part of it was that this particular area has a separated bike path, if that guy only stayed on a bike path instead of a narrow sidewalk then the old lady would of still been alive. In the last 7 years that I've been commuting I counted more irresponsible cyclist then responsible ones. Most people just don't have a clue how to ride safely.

El Cid

People hate anything different from themselves; its human nature. Your co-workers hated cyclists long before that accident happened, and now they just have an excuse to vent.

As for that cyclist in Central Park, who even knows? We've got at least two pretty involved threads on the topic, and nobody seems to know exactly what happened. Back to human nature, there are going to be some jackasses on two wheels, just like there are on four. This collision is way more sensational than a standard hit-and-run, so it has more media coverage.

wilfried

Yes, this is terrible and tragic, and the incident should be investigated and the cyclist should be held accountable. But that's one cyclist killing one person in five years. An that somehow means cyclists are out of control? How many pedestrians do drivers kill in the city every week? How much media attention do those deaths get? And those crashes are rarely investigated, and most drivers walk away with nary a traffic ticket, with "no criminality suspected." If the concern is really street safety, who's out of control? And who should get the attention of media and the cops?

In another incident, a woman on a bicycle was hit and seriously injured by a hit and run driver. The incident was caught on a shop security camera. Neighborhood people found the car just a few blocks away. Yet even confronted with all this, the cops refused even to question the driver. And of course, what's another traffic accident to the evening news?

The reaction to this reminds me of race relations in this country. A driver who causes a crash is just a single bad driver, but a single cyclist causing an accident shows that cyclists are out of control. Likewise a white person committing a crime is just a bad person committing a crime, but a black person committing a crime somehow represents the whole black race, and makes all black people suspect.

Or, in a different vein, it reminds me of people who are afraid to fly, so drive instead, never mind that you're far more likely to die in a car than on a plane.

Papa Tom

>>>A driver who causes a crash is just a single bad driver, but a single cyclist causing an accident shows that cyclists are out of control.<<<<

It has been this way since the late 1800's/early 1900's, when the strained relationship involved bicycles and horses. Good point.

In my opinion, I think we're ALL way out of control in our arrogance about traveling using ANY mode.

Mr IGH

This is what passes for the fourth estate. Histeria over a rare event esp compared to car/pedestrian injuries, cops wasting time giving out tickets...Keep the masses distracted while you pillage.

Jim from Boston

That incident has made the national talk show circuit, decrying the cyclist. I have no facts, and no opinion other than regret about the incident. I do have a Golden Rule of Bicycling though, “Ride in the vicinity of pedestrians, as you would have vehicles drive in the vicinity of you.”

alan s 

A revenue generating opportunity for the police and media.

cobrabyte

I think you're eating up what the media is spoon feeding you.

Most cyclists are safe, some aren't. Most drivers are safe, come aren't. Most pedestrians are safe, some aren't.

intransit1217

How do you call out your own kind when you see a blatant screw up? On a group ride recently, a sprint broke out near the end, which isn't unusual. But this time it broke out on a tree lines s-curve with a double yellow approaching an intersection. At one point there were riders three abreast, and a truck passed in the opposite direction. It looked VERY close to me. At the end of the ride, I made my voice known, firmly, politely, to the ride leaders. It was shrugged off as "we can't control" what riders do.


Here's an ugly question: If in most states we are considered vehicles and must subscribe to vehicular laws, why are we allowed on mups in the first place?
Do we need our own speed limits?

wphamilton

It sounds more like NY cops are out of control.

15 NY pedestrian deaths by cyclists in the last 20 years. It's an aberration not an epidemic.

EvilWeasel

Kamikaze means "devine wind" so i think what you really asked was... should cyclists be eating beans?

tarwheel 

I have no problem with police ticketing cyclists who violate traffic laws. Around here, the most serious cyclist violations are Jimmy Johns delivery guys who insist on riding on sidewalks, often very fast. I have almost been hit twice by JJ cyclists rounding corners on sidewalks.

alan s 

Start a class action suit. This one looks like it will settle:

The Superior Court of the State of California in and for the County of Los Angeles (the “Court”) has granted preliminary approval to a proposed settlement (the “Settlement”) of a class action lawsuit regarding the purchase of sandwiches described as including sprouts but which did not include sprouts beginning in or around February 2012 at Jimmy John’s restaurants.

Only in California would someone file a class action over sprouts.

SJX426 

Bad behavior is bad behavior, which the laws are trying to get people to pay attention to. In the DC area, cars are just as bad or worse than the cyclists. Over 600 bicyclists were hit by cars inside DC in 2012. Across the north boarder, in Maryland is the highest per capita car/ped accidents in the nation for one reason, bad behavior. The car drivers do not drive responsibly and the Peds wear dark cloths at night.

andyprough

The police in New York "announced a crackdown on cyclists that disobey traffic laws"??

So before today, it was ok in New York to disobey traffic laws? No wonder someone got killed. This is also the police's fault for refusing to enforce the existing regulations.

revcp 

Certainly seems to be an overreaction by NY authorities. But it's a problem that cyclists can do whatever they like with the only repercussion being they are occasionally yelled at. I'd like to see more attention paid because it's the cyclists themselves who are usually most at danger. I live in an exurban area that has no street lights. I can't tell you the number of times I've just in time seen cyclists--kids and adults--riding on the wrong side of a two lane no shoulder road with no lights. Scares me to death, every time. I've also barely missed a few wrong siders when I've been at a stop sign or stop light and started to turn right, only to see the cyclist at the last minute. So, yes, I agree with Andy above, it would help all of us if police would enforce existing regulations.

Paul Barnard

Did the collision take place in the bike lane or in the pedestrian lane?

Was the rider cited for anything?

Is it known that the rider violated any laws?

Is it common for pedestrians to meander aimlessly and distracted in city park?

Should cyclists use the answer to the previous question in determining a safe speed in close proximity to pedestrians.

grolby

Realistically, the NYPD cannot ticket every individual who fails to obey traffic regulations. They need to decide where to focus their efforts to the most effect. This reaction to a rare tragedy demonstrates once again that where police departments decide to focus their enforcement efforts is a political decision rather than a public safety decision.

Papa Tom

I don't think we should expect the police to take care of every incident of bad behavior out there. That's how they end up with too much power and how nations around the world end up with out-of-control police forces. We need to do this ourselves. I've started by making sure I am a good example every time I get on the bike. What are you all doing?

grolby

Why is that a problem?

It might seem like I'm being a smartass and that I'm saying bicyclists should feel free to misbehave; seriously, though, I'm not. I think bicyclists should operate their vehicles safely and use care around pedestrians.

That said, as I said above, police forces are resource-limited in the real world. It is not possible to catch every single individual that breaks a law. Because traffic laws are mostly enacted in the interest of public safety, and police are charged, in theory, with maximizing public safety within reasonable extent of their powers, enforcement of traffic laws would most logically be determined on a utilitarian principle. Basically, you want the most bang for your enforcement buck. By far the biggest public safety threat comes from motorists. Hundreds of pedestrians are killed in New York and other large cities every year by cars. A tiny handful are killed by out-of-control bicyclists.

Yes, it's annoying when people who misbehave don't face consequences for it. But while a near miss from a cyclist is scary, in the grand scheme of things you are much less likely to be seriously injured or killed by a cyclist than by a car. Directing enforcement resources away from cars and toward bicyclists is utterly perverse; if anything, it might have the inverse of the desired effect on overall public safety. So again - why is it a bad thing if cyclists get away with bad behavior.


Of course: this all assumes that traffic enforcement has a substantial public safety impact. I would be willing to bet that it doesn't at all, and the problem is the design of streets and vehicles that make it easy for people to get killed.

noglider 

I'm very torn up about this. I know the cyclist, but not very well. I'm not likely to run into him. I don't know whose fault it is, and I'm sure I won't ever know.

It's mayhem here in NYC. People step off the curb against the light without looking, often looking at their phones, often with headphones on. The onus is on the person carrying more mass and traveling at greater speed, so when it's driver vs cyclist or driver vs pedestrian, the driver bears most responsibility in most cases, in my own personal view. This is even when the lighter, slower person breaks the law.

Regardless of that view, we have to have a major change in habits and attitudes here. Movement of pedestrians and cyclists is like water. Wherever things can go, they do go. In many ways, I'm OK with jaywalking and with cyclists running red lights on bikes where no one is threatened or inconvenienced or frightened. This is the way it's been all my life here in NYC. But the wrong-way cycling and the jaywalking have gotten out of hand.

The mayor has a new program called Zero Vision or something like that, where the goal is zero traffic fatalities. I'm fine with the goal being a number we'll never reach. It's just a goal. I think we need both enforcement and also consciousness raising. It's just not cool the way people are so inconsiderate and aware of their own self-endangerment. In the 60's, we had public service TV commercials about "cross in the green, not in between." I don't see stuff like that now. Let's remind people of what we think is obvious, because clearly, it's not obvious. When we were kids, our parents taught us not to read while walking in the street. Why have we thrown out that rule now that we read from screens instead of paper? I won't even talk on the phone when I cross the street. I say, "hold on," and put the phone down at my hip and cross, looking in every direction. Distracted walking is as perilous as distracted driving.

noglider 

I'm also upset that people characterize cyclists as a major source of danger. Disorderly cycling certainly is a problem, but we accept car collisions as a fact of life. The death of a woman by a bike is noteworthy because it's unusual, not because it has become common.

Matariki

Andy had a gas problem?

revcp 

I don't think you're being a smart-ass. I do think you're reading imprecisely. There's nothing in my post that suggests I believe it's possible to catch and ticket every offender. I also clearly wrote that I believe it's cyclists that are most at risk by ignoring traffic laws. Cyclists killing people is rare as hens' teeth. If you're going to quote and respond to someone at the very least read their message.