Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

The Helmet Thread 2

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.
View Poll Results: What Are Your Helmet Wearing Habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet
52
10.40%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped
24
4.80%
I've always worn a helmet
208
41.60%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do
126
25.20%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions
90
18.00%
Voters: 500. You may not vote on this poll

The Helmet Thread 2

Old 12-31-17, 06:37 PM
  #2601  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
A bike helmet looks ridiculous compared to a Nazi helmet ? Were you in Charlottesville, Va. last Summer ?
njjoe is offline  
Old 12-31-17, 06:51 PM
  #2602  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada, PG BC
Posts: 3,849

Bikes: 27 speed ORYX with over 39,000Kms on it and another 14,000KMs with a BionX E-Assist on it

Liked 57 Times in 49 Posts
Originally Posted by MikeyMK
It really wouldn't suit me. Even if i still wouldn't look as ridiculous as i do with a cycle helmet on.
Aww, come on, a couple of tattoos would fix that, no...?
350htrr is offline  
Old 12-31-17, 08:26 PM
  #2603  
Cycleway town
 
MikeyMK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Milton Keynes, England
Posts: 1,402

Bikes: 2.6kw GT LTS e-tandem, 250w Voodoo, 250w solar recumbent trike, 3-speed shopper, Merlin ol/skl mtb, 80cc Ellswick

Liked 169 Times in 117 Posts
No tats are saving you from looking like a mushroom. It don't gotta be this way.



Okay, if mushroom's cool, why not turtle-back?



There're all manner of takes on it..



Meh, i'm still not wearing one. Good old cycling cap, that's all you need. Preferably with a slim, firm, low profile padding..



Okay. But are huge, rock-hard polystyrene shells really the best way to protect a 4ft fall..? What's wrong with a good old sausage hat? Comfy!



There are plenty of modern takes on the concept, too.



In fact, soft hat technology is progressing, many of these are foldable and machine washable.



And bump-hats are progressing elsewhere in sports too, being far more protective on hard floors than they look. These could be the direction for many cyclists, particularly roadies.



Anyway, my point is you ain't gotta look like a toadstool. Or i ain't, anyway. Cycle helmets are moving on, as this one demonstrates - hopefully i'll find something before i need it...


Last edited by MikeyMK; 12-31-17 at 08:33 PM.
MikeyMK is offline  
Old 01-05-18, 02:54 PM
  #2604  
Senior Member
 
wphamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280

Bikes: Nashbar Road

Liked 341 Times in 228 Posts
Originally Posted by MikeyMK
I don't understand why they have to look so ridiculous. Surely some armour plating in a beanie would suffice?
They are thick so that the crushing minimizes the impulse. Plating would help against penetration but not as much impact protection. It would be better than a beanie though.

Skateboard helmets actually look better, that's the style i bought for my daughter and insist she wears it. Me though, i still don't wear one. Just a thick beanie. I know this is wrong, ...
I haven't worn a helmet since November, well maybe once or twice, but I don't think it's wrong. It's just a choice, like which gloves do I wear, or which shoes.
wphamilton is offline  
Old 01-06-18, 11:42 AM
  #2605  
Senior Member
 
MRT2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 6,319

Bikes: 2012 Salsa Casseroll, 2009 Kona Blast

Liked 208 Times in 146 Posts
Originally Posted by Skipjacks
My helmet rules...

On a road with cars: ALWAYS! With a blinking red light on the back. No exceptions!!!!

Riding with my daughter around an empty parking lot on the weekends or down to the river or a variety of other places that I'm unlikely to see other people: ALWAYS, but mostly just to set a good example for my kids in an otherwise zero danger environment. But if I make her wear one, I should wear one.

On a rail trail by myself: I usually don't wear it, but I always have it with me. I usually have it strapped to the rear rack in case I want to take a detour down one of the cross streets and go exploring. And I might not wearing it one direction that's uphill when I'm averaging 7mph...but I'll put it on when I head home downhill going 25mph.
I know this is anecdotal, but the worse bicycle accident I ever saw up close happened on a protected MUP. The cyclist who crashed was just behind me and I had just passed him on the left. He was an older gentleman, actually a friend of a friend. The path was paved and elevated, with a ditch and small trees and heavy heavy brush off to the right. He must have strayed too far to the right and in a moment of inattention, his front wheel went off the paved part of the trail and in trying to correct his error, went down and into the trees and brush. I heard him go down. His helmet took the brunt of the impact and was cracked, his glasses broken, so I surmise he went face first into one of the trees. His head was bleeding and he was not making any sense. We called for an ambulance and he spent the night in the hospital. If he were not wearing a helmet, who knows? He might have suffered a permanent head injury or possibly even died from a skull fracture.
MRT2 is offline  
Old 01-09-18, 10:28 AM
  #2606  
Senior Member
 
CarinusMalmari's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 223
Liked 226 Times in 131 Posts
Originally Posted by curbtender
Yes, whenever I wear a helmet, I get the urge to do a cannonball into a sidewalk.
A great many of the "A bicycle helmet saved my life" testimonies, start with describing how recklessness and/or stupidity was the cause of the accident. It's just my impression, but a lot of the bicycle helmets fanboys don't even seem to understand the bare basics of cycling safety.

Does science class still do the egg drop from the roof? I'm guessing styrofoam usually produces the best results.
egg =/= head. But it's probably this kind of simplistic and flawed thinking that sells bicycle helmets.

Last edited by CarinusMalmari; 01-09-18 at 10:44 AM.
CarinusMalmari is offline  
Old 01-09-18, 12:36 PM
  #2607  
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: France
Posts: 1,030

Bikes: Brompton, Time, Bianchi, Jan Janssen, Peugeot

Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Bicycle helmets are an obvious safety measure, like crash helmets for motorcyclists and seatbelts for motorists. Fanboys have nothing to do with it, though logic, safety and science all do.
avole is offline  
Old 01-09-18, 12:58 PM
  #2608  
Senior Member
 
curbtender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SF Bay Area, East bay
Posts: 7,834

Bikes: Miyata 618 GT, Marinoni, Kestral 200 2002 Trek 5200, KHS Flite, Koga Miyata, Schwinn Spitfire 5, Mondia Special, Univega Alpina, Miyata team Ti, Santa Cruz Highball

Liked 2,861 Times in 1,311 Posts
I don't see where wearing a helmet in an accident has no value. I do see the value in not having accidents in the first place.
curbtender is offline  
Old 01-09-18, 01:34 PM
  #2609  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,517
Liked 1,478 Times in 1,023 Posts
Originally Posted by CarinusMalmari
A great many of the "A bicycle helmet saved my life" testimonies, start with describing how recklessness and/or stupidity was the cause of the accident. It's just my impression, but a lot of the bicycle helmets fanboys don't even seem to understand the bare basics of cycling safety.
Classic confirmation bias. Classic.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 03:36 AM
  #2610  
Senior Member
 
CarinusMalmari's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 223
Liked 226 Times in 131 Posts
Originally Posted by avole
Fanboys have nothing to do with it, though logic, safety and science all do.
I would love to see all the peer-reviewed scientific reports that prove the effectivity of bicycle helmets then.

Bicycle helmets are [...snip...] like crash helmets for motorcyclists
I would say that if safety is the goal, there's no reason to not don a full-face motor-cycle helmet instead of a foam-hat. Bicycle helmets usually aren't like motor-cycle helmets, they are obviously less effective.

Last edited by CarinusMalmari; 01-10-18 at 03:51 AM.
CarinusMalmari is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 03:45 AM
  #2611  
Senior Member
 
CarinusMalmari's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 223
Liked 226 Times in 131 Posts
Originally Posted by curbtender
I don't see where wearing a helmet in an accident has no value. I do see the value in not having accidents in the first place.
I would classify bicycle helmets as a little better than completely worthless. They likely offer some protection, but overall they are not really important to cycling safety. Coupled with the fact that they come with serious drawbacks, they really don't seem worth it.
CarinusMalmari is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 03:45 AM
  #2612  
Senior Member
 
CarinusMalmari's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 223
Liked 226 Times in 131 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker
Classic confirmation bias. Classic.
Non-arguments like this can be discarded without refutation.
CarinusMalmari is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 06:20 AM
  #2613  
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: France
Posts: 1,030

Bikes: Brompton, Time, Bianchi, Jan Janssen, Peugeot

Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by CarinusMalmari
I would classify bicycle helmets as a little better than completely worthless. They likely offer some protection, but overall they are not really important to cycling safety. Coupled with the fact that they come with serious drawbacks, they really don't seem worth it.
You couldn't be more wrong, and you really do need to back up your assertions with facts and figures.

Hiny: you won't find much
avole is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 06:55 AM
  #2614  
Senior Member
 
CarinusMalmari's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 223
Liked 226 Times in 131 Posts
Originally Posted by avole
You couldn't be more wrong, and you really do need to back up your assertions with facts and figures.

Hiny: you won't find much
Actually, the people who make claims should be the ones who prove those claims. That would be the people who pretend bicycle helmets are an incredibly important safety feature. The reluctance of people to accept bicycle helmets as their Lid And Savior is mainly rooted in the lack of evidence that they work. Until said prove is delivered I'm content with cycling bare headed.
CarinusMalmari is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 07:01 AM
  #2615  
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: France
Posts: 1,030

Bikes: Brompton, Time, Bianchi, Jan Janssen, Peugeot

Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Well, you did make the claim they were worthless, so the onus is on you, but on your own head be it then. Good luck.
avole is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 08:36 AM
  #2616  
Senior Member
 
CarinusMalmari's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 223
Liked 226 Times in 131 Posts
Originally Posted by avole
Well, you did make the claim they were worthless,
I did not make such claim. Try reading my post again.
CarinusMalmari is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 09:48 AM
  #2617  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,517
Liked 1,478 Times in 1,023 Posts
Originally Posted by CarinusMalmari
I did not make such claim. Try reading my post again.
You aren't being honest.

"a little better than completely worthless" is just hedging.

Is "completely worthless" the same thing as "worthless"? Or is "worthless" "a little better than "completely worthless"?

"they really don't seem worth it" is hedging too.

Originally Posted by CarinusMalmari
I would classify bicycle helmets as a little better than completely worthless. They likely offer some protection, but overall they are not really important to cycling safety. Coupled with the fact that they come with serious drawbacks, they really don't seem worth it.
No one is going to conclude from this that you think helmets have any real worth.

Last edited by njkayaker; 01-10-18 at 09:58 AM.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 09:53 AM
  #2618  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,517
Liked 1,478 Times in 1,023 Posts
Originally Posted by CarinusMalmari
Originally Posted by CarinusMalmari
A great many of the "A bicycle helmet saved my life" testimonies, start with describing how recklessness and/or stupidity was the cause of the accident. It's just my impression, but a lot of the bicycle helmets fanboys don't even seem to understand the bare basics of cycling safety.
Non-arguments like this can be discarded without refutation.
That's correct.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 10:37 AM
  #2619  
Tractorlegs
Thread Starter
 
Mark Stone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 3,185

Bikes: Schwinn Meridian Single-Speed Tricycle

Liked 60 Times in 42 Posts
We may need to distinguish between "helmets saving lives" (which they don't often do?) and "helmets preventing some injuries".

I'm not sure a helmet would make much of a difference in a violent collision or serious crash. But personal experience shows me that it can be useful in preventing concussions during less serious incidences. My example (already used a couple of times in this thread) is that in 1991 I had a low-speed (prolly 10mph) collision with a car on a bike path that threw me to the ground. I suffered a PITA concussion because of having no helmet. In 2003 I was helmeted and had a very similar crash and bopped my head on the cement again pretty hard - this time with a helmet - and didn't have to get treated for a concussion. They def have their place, and I don't think they should be classified as "a little better than completely worthless" [MENTION=373404]CarinusMalmari[/MENTION]
__________________
********************************
Trikeman
Mark Stone is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 10:50 AM
  #2620  
Senior Member
 
CarinusMalmari's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 223
Liked 226 Times in 131 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker
No one is going to conclude from this that you think helmets have any real worth.
People who confuse what I wrote with their own brain-farts are probably going to have trouble with understanding that post. The remainder will conclude that I think bicycle helmets are of limited effectiveness. You know, pretty much like I wrote.

That second post of yours mainly proves you still aren't capable of "winning" discussions without resorting to putting words in my mouth, etc.
CarinusMalmari is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 01:27 PM
  #2621  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,517
Liked 1,478 Times in 1,023 Posts
Originally Posted by CarinusMalmari
People who confuse what I wrote with their own brain-farts are probably going to have trouble with understanding that post. The remainder will conclude that I think bicycle helmets are of limited effectiveness. You know, pretty much like I wrote.
No. The "brain farts" you are detecting are your own.

Originally Posted by CarinusMalmari
That second post of yours mainly proves you still aren't capable of "winning" discussions without resorting to putting words in my mouth, etc.
No, your words apply to your confirmation bias.

We had:

"a little better than completely worthless".
"they really don't seem worth it".

Now, we have:

"limited effectiveness" (whatever that means).

Is "completely worthless" the same thing as "worthless"? Or is "worthless" "a little better than "completely worthless"?

Is "limited effectiveness" more or less than "a little better than completely worthless"?

Last edited by njkayaker; 01-10-18 at 01:37 PM.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 09:56 PM
  #2622  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Safety Education First, Safety Equipment Second.

I own a Helmet.
Many times I wear it...
At times I dont Wear it.
Im not going to disect my case by case choices ajd reasons..

But, I would like to say this:

I believe the big downfall with the "Helmet" topic .... is that is often left as simple as "wear your hemet...be safe"

The helmet is what theoretically kicks into play--- because someone WAS NOT SAFE...

Its the backup last ditch effort plan for when bad choices are made and safety isnt put first... by the rider or by someone else.

Education, on the other hand...further dostances the chance of an accident in the first place.

Education in riding safety, (for riders,vehicle drivers AND pedestrians.)

Ones that choose to drive a car, walk or pedal on public areas should be properly educated and prove that they can handle themselves according to the order of the region... in a safe and wise manner.

Drivers need a drivers license. However, drivers are only one component of the traffic that happens on roads.

If a rider can't demonstrate appropriate wisdom, alertness, and courteous behaviour when mixing with traffic, he/she should not be allowed out there in the roads.

I am an avid cyclist... road and trail. Im also a licensed driver.

I believe many cyclists are smart... they stay to the side of the road..
Only claim the lane when truly necessary for safety.. and do try to be mindful of oetting traffic by when they can ( i often pull over and stop asap if I see a car is struggling to pass me. I see many cyclists that don't, and I feel that is very rude.

I believe education and enforcement would be 10x the safety factor of a helmet.

Helmets dont "make" us safe.

Applying wisdom and discernment... "make" us safe.

If helmets in themselves "make" us safe... why dont we see car drivers be legally required to wear helmets... or.. pedestrians?
Steamtrain76 is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 10:08 PM
  #2623  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Safety Education First, Safety Equipment Second.

Originally Posted by CarinusMalmari
Actually, the people who make claims should be the ones who prove those claims. That would be the people who pretend bicycle helmets are an incredibly important safety feature. The reluctance of people to accept bicycle helmets as their Lid And Savior is mainly rooted in the lack of evidence that they work. Until said prove is delivered I'm content with cycling bare headed.
Ive been cycling bare headed in my town... one time (as an example for this reply... I was waiting at a green light for an oncoming car turning right to complete his turn so I could turn left into the bike lane. Instead of paying attention to where he was turning while driving... he decided it was safer to drive turning right while hanging his head out the window looking a total different direction... (towards me) in order to thump his noggin and jesture his opinion that "I" should have a helmet on.

Just a thought here... but... it would seem to me that "he" (driving a 3600lb vehicle into a direction hes not looking..., is creating a far more serious safety hazard than me... planted stationary and alert to ALL the traffic surrounding me....

Yes... I firmly agree to your referance to blindly accepting helmets as lid and saviour.... its become accepted as such and ones are bullied for exacting sound reasoning prior to blindly following suit to appease the masses.

Last edited by Steamtrain76; 01-10-18 at 10:25 PM. Reason: Spelling errors, and conclusion
Steamtrain76 is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 10:10 PM
  #2624  
Senior Member
 
curbtender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SF Bay Area, East bay
Posts: 7,834

Bikes: Miyata 618 GT, Marinoni, Kestral 200 2002 Trek 5200, KHS Flite, Koga Miyata, Schwinn Spitfire 5, Mondia Special, Univega Alpina, Miyata team Ti, Santa Cruz Highball

Liked 2,861 Times in 1,311 Posts
And that is why this thread got started, people should be able to choose wearing a helmet and not be made to wear one by law.
curbtender is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 11:22 PM
  #2625  
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: France
Posts: 1,030

Bikes: Brompton, Time, Bianchi, Jan Janssen, Peugeot

Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
I agree. Same goes for motorcyclists and helmets and drivers with safety belts, people should have the right to choose!

The point is that legislation is rightly aimed at worst case scenarios. If you don’t have accidents you don’t need either safety belts or helmets. The key lies in the word accident , and it is that against which the law aims to protect you.
avole is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.