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The Helmet Thread 2

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View Poll Results: What Are Your Helmet Wearing Habits?
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I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped
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I've always worn a helmet
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I didn't wear a helmet, but now do
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I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions
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The Helmet Thread 2

Old 06-04-23, 05:32 PM
  #3651  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
It should be noted that few, if any doctors or brain surgeons have any special knowledge or expertise on the actual real world effectiveness of bicycle helmets in reducing TBI or other serious head injuries for the population of bicyclists involved in accidents or collisions.
It should be noted that few, if any random people on a bike forum on the internet have any special knowledge or expertise on the actual real world effectiveness of bicycle helmets in reducing TBI or other serious head injuries for the population of bicyclists involved in accidents or collisions.
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Old 06-04-23, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by retswerb
It should be noted that few, if any random people on a bike forum on the internet have any special knowledge or expertise on the actual real world effectiveness of bicycle helmets in reducing TBI or other serious head injuries for the population of bicyclists involved in accidents or collisions.
Quite true, hence umpteen posts from umpteen posters, and articles from equally uninformed randos about how they are sure helmets either saved their lives or somebody else from crippling head injuries that they read about somewhere on the Internet.
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Old 06-04-23, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Quite true, hence umpteen posts from umpteen posters, and articles from equally uninformed randos about how they are sure helmets either saved their lives or somebody else from crippling head injuries that they read about somewhere on the Internet.
Me being able to walk/ride away, with a crushed helmet, but nothing more than a mild, short-term headache is plenty enough to convince me that things would have been much worse without a helmet.

My father spending multiple weeks in the hospital recovering from a head injury after being hit by a car is plenty enough to convince me that his helmet likely saved his life. His doctor said the same thing.

Im not an expert on TBI, but some stuff is pretty obvious.
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Old 06-04-23, 08:41 PM
  #3654  
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Yesterday my (20 yo) kid was mountain biking with his friend, who crashed and was knocked out, stone cold. He had a full-face Giro Switchblade. The helmet was severely impacted and the jaw guard cracked. Despite a concussion, he got a clear CAT scan, and only spent about 7 or 8 hours in the ER, but I am fairly confident things would have been a whole lot worse had he had an inferior helmet, or even a good road helmet, let alone no helmet.

So add me to the uninformed random umpteen posters.

Unless one is willing to do the obvious experimental controls, I don't see how making such an observation is at all unreasonable.

Frankly, I don't understand why this assertion is at all controversial, and if for some reason it is wrong, so what? It is far better than being under-protected and being wrong.

He didn't have knee guards, and they spent several hours cleaning those wounds. It is possible if he had knee guards, it wouldn't have made a difference, but I think there is a reasonable chance it would have.
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Old 06-04-23, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Quite true, hence umpteen posts from umpteen posters, and articles from equally uninformed randos about how they are sure helmets either saved their lives or somebody else from crippling head injuries that they read about somewhere on the Internet.
Sure, and umpteen posts from umpteen posters about how they are sure helmets are somehow not worthwhile. I'll stick with the doctors, brain surgeons, and everyone else who can see that getting hit hard on the head is less bad with a helmet.
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Old 06-05-23, 05:17 AM
  #3656  
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Originally Posted by retswerb
Sure, and umpteen posts from umpteen posters about how they are sure helmets are somehow not worthwhile. I'll stick with the doctors, brain surgeons, and everyone else who can see that getting hit hard on the head is less bad with a helmet.
That is your prerogative; just as many others use "common sense" (as well as fire and brimstone proselytizing) to reinforce their belief in the effectiveness of medallions around their neck, tracts in their pocket or plastic totems on the dashboard to protect them from harm. Plenty of confirming anecdotes to be found on the Internet is proof enough, eh?

True Faith; even if it doesn't deliver the assumed protection, believing in it can't hurt, can it?

Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 06-05-23 at 05:24 AM.
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Old 06-05-23, 06:22 AM
  #3657  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
That is your prerogative; just as many others use "common sense" (as well as fire and brimstone proselytizing) to reinforce their belief in the effectiveness of medallions around their neck, tracts in their pocket or plastic totems on the dashboard to protect them from harm. Plenty of confirming anecdotes to be found on the Internet is proof enough, eh?

True Faith; even if it doesn't deliver the assumed protection, believing in it can't hurt, can it?
Which categories of helmets are superfluous in other settings? Baseball? Football? Equestrian? Construction? Military? Or is it only cycling helmets that are unnecessary?
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Old 06-05-23, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
Which categories of helmets are superfluous in other settings? Baseball? Football? Equestrian? Construction? Military? Or is it only cycling helmets that are unnecessary?
Oh but bicycle helmets are "necessary", if the wearer believes that he/she is not safe riding without it; or alleged experts using appeals to authority fallacy have persuaded the rule makers to mandate that wear.

As far as other helmets in use in other activities, you tell me. The issue is bicycle helmet real world effectiveness in protecting the wearers and reducing the risk of TBI and other serious head injury, as well as relying on conclusions about that risk reduction based on the promoter's claims, alleged experts' false appeals to authority, and/or "common sense."

An anecdote about bicycle helmet effectiveness in reducing bicycling risk is just that and no more, whether it is a BF poster's claim about the necessity for helmet wear based on a belief about how the helmet saved him or someone they know, or a belief in helmet effectiveness in reducing bicycling risk drawn from a doctor's "analysis" based at best on a glance at a helmet(s) in an ER.
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Old 06-05-23, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by retswerb
...getting hit hard on the head is less bad with a helmet.
This ^^^ is really not a difficult concept to understand.
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Old 06-06-23, 01:19 PM
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I wear a helmet because I want to, not because someone tells me to. Personal choice, but is the potential risk worth the "reward"?
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Old 06-17-23, 03:16 PM
  #3661  
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
Yesterday my (20 yo) kid was mountain biking with his friend, who crashed and was knocked out, stone cold. He had a full-face Giro Switchblade. The helmet was severely impacted and the jaw guard cracked. Despite a concussion, he got a clear CAT scan, and only spent about 7 or 8 hours in the ER, but I am fairly confident things would have been a whole lot worse had he had an inferior helmet, or even a good road helmet, let alone no helmet.

So add me to the uninformed random umpteen posters.

Unless one is willing to do the obvious experimental controls, I don't see how making such an observation is at all unreasonable.

Frankly, I don't understand why this assertion is at all controversial, and if for some reason it is wrong, so what? It is far better than being under-protected and being wrong.

He didn't have knee guards, and they spent several hours cleaning those wounds. It is possible if he had knee guards, it wouldn't have made a difference, but I think there is a reasonable chance it would have.
A. the helmet failed. B. the kid still got a TBI.
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Old 06-17-23, 04:04 PM
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I think the term would be sacrificial.
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Old 06-17-23, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by billew
A. the helmet failed. B. the kid still got a TBI.
A. That's not a failure, that's a helmet doing exactly what it's supposed to do by absorbing the impact rather than passing it along.

B. Getting a TBI is a lot better than being dead. Once again:
Originally Posted by retswerb
getting hit hard on the head is less bad with a helmet.
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Old 06-17-23, 08:20 PM
  #3664  
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Originally Posted by billew
A. the helmet failed.​​​
Your evidence for that is what?

​​​​ B. the kid still got a TBI.
He did not. Don't make stuff up. It makes you look like a Fakebook goofball.
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Old 06-21-23, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
Your evidence for that is what?



He did not. Don't make stuff up. It makes you look like a Fakebook goofball.
A concussion is a TBI.A helmet fails if it cracks this failure is instantaneous, helmets are "tested" by dropping a weight onto the top which isn't where most helmets get hit but where the arch is strongest to skew the data . https://road.cc/content/news/only-1-...cussion-293659
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Old 06-21-23, 10:12 AM
  #3666  
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Originally Posted by billew
A concussion is a TBI.
They are two separate things. In this case he had a CT scan to check.

It is possible to have a concussion without a TBI.

It is also possible to have a TBI without a concussion.

A helmet fails if it cracks this failure is instantaneous, helmets are "tested" by dropping a weight onto the top which isn't where most helmets get hit but where the arch is strongest to skew the data . https://road.cc/content/news/only-1-...cussion-293659
It does not follow that the helmet protection failed, any more than it follows that vaccination failed because I got a mild case of COVID.

In both cases, the success is preventing a more severe outcome.

Last edited by Polaris OBark; 06-21-23 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 06-21-23, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
He did not. Don't make stuff up. It makes you look like a Fakebook goofball.
From the CDC..."A concussion is a type of traumatic brain injury—or TBI—caused by a bump, blow, or jolt to the head or by a hit to the body that causes the head and brain to move rapidly back and forth."

That said, there is little doubt that your son's friend would have suffered a significantly greater injury - possibly fatal - if it were not for the helmet absorbing much of the impact force. Sensible people understand that a broken/cracked/dented helmet resulting from an impact means the helmet did its job.
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Old 06-21-23, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by billew
A. the helmet failed. B. the kid still got a TBI.
Bad logic.

Do you think using seat belts or airbags are useful? Note that they aren't perfect either.
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Old 09-16-23, 03:26 PM
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Catlike whisper knockoff

Back in 2014, when I saw a TdF team rockin these cool helmets that were full of holes that looked like pods for hatching alien eggs, I looked it up, and it was the Catlike Whisper, MSRP like $150

But then I looked on fleabay and found "Bicycle Bike Cycling Safety Honeycomb Shape Adult Helmet 41 Holes BMX MTB Road":



At a sweet $19.99 (free delivery), that's my Jam!

In 2019 I got another one, and found it by searching fleabay for "helmet 41 holes"

It's been enough years again that the liner has gotten too grossly slimy, and I want to replace it, but I can't find it.

Anybody got a line one if anybody is selling these cheap knockoffs anymore?
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Old 09-16-23, 05:19 PM
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I wouldn't want a cheap knockoff protecting my brain but then again if your brain says "cheap knockoff good idea" maybe there is something missing.
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Old 09-16-23, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
I wouldn't want a cheap knockoff protecting my brain but then again if your brain says "cheap knockoff good idea" maybe there is something missing.
Who cares? Its cheap.
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Old 09-16-23, 07:45 PM
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I think the liner is $24.95.
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Old 09-16-23, 07:59 PM
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A real catlike whisper liner may be $24.95, but it probably won't fit the attachment points in the knockoff.
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Old 09-16-23, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
I wouldn't want a cheap knockoff protecting my brain but then again if your brain says "cheap knockoff good idea" maybe there is something missing.
If you wanna explain how a $20 Bell helmet from Walmart will keep my head safer than this $20 helmet I like the looks of, I'll listen.

But there's no way you can convince me the $150 helmet is 7x safer/better.

The reason I went from knockoff #1 to knockoff #2, was (in addition to sweat-saturated pads), I was riding one of my favorite trails, named "The Tunnels", and I hit a stout branch so hard, it felt like my spine was being pushed down into my chest. The helmet cracked a little, so I replaced it.
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Old 09-16-23, 08:36 PM
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Looks like you can get one on DHgate.

That said, you're approaching half the cost of the real McCoy by now... if I were you, I'd treat myself. Even if it's "just" twice as effective at protecting you, it's a small fraction of what an ER would charge to diagnose a concussion and send you out the door.

BTW, Bell probably spends millions a year in R&D, and complies with international safety and testing standards, while the factory making these knockoffs spends about zero, and complies with none, if that answers your question.
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