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The Helmet Thread 2

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Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.
View Poll Results: What Are Your Helmet Wearing Habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet
52
10.40%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped
24
4.80%
I've always worn a helmet
208
41.60%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do
126
25.20%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions
90
18.00%
Voters: 500. You may not vote on this poll

The Helmet Thread 2

Old 01-25-15, 10:27 AM
  #1001  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
I was unaware of marauding hooligans forcing helmets off an individual's head. I certainly didn't encounter any marauding hooligans while riding in Seattle. I would think that "advocates" would want to warn visitors of the marauding hooligans forcing helmets off an individual's head.

Around here, the dollar value of a used helmet is zero - so folks leave it alone.

(But yes, it's my decision to wear a helmet.)
Are you carefully dodging my question, or am I not understanding you correctly? If someone decides not to wear a helmet based on his/her judgment, I believe it is his/her call, not any others'. Do you agree? [Yes/No] (To be clear, please assume an MHL isn't in place.)
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Old 01-25-15, 12:17 PM
  #1002  
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I don't ask myself these not questions.

Should I not go to Alabama today? Yes, I should not go to Alabama today.
Should I not go to Alaska today? Yes, I should not go to Alaska today.
Should I not go to Alberta today? Yes, I should not go to Alberta today.
Should I not go to Arizona today? Yes, I should not go to Arizona today.
Should I not go to British Columbia today? No, I should go to British Columbia today.
Should I not got to California today? Yes, I should not go to California today.
....

Obviously you ask yourself these questions. I don't waste much time not answering these not questions.

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Old 01-25-15, 12:21 PM
  #1003  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
I don't ask myself these not questions.

Should I not go to Alabama today? Yes, I should not go to Alabama today.
Should I not go to Alaska today? Yes, I should not go to Alaska today.
Should I not go to Alberta today? Yes, I should not go to Alberta today.
Should I not go to Arizona today? Yes, I should not go to Arizona today.
Should I not go to British Columbia today? No, I should go to British Columbia today.
Should I not got to California today? Yes, I should not go to California today.
....

Obviously you ask yourself these questions. I don't waste much time not answering these not questions.

-mr. bill
This is not one of those "not" questions. Let me write it here again for your convenience.

I believe the decision (not) to wear a helmet should be up to the individual cyclist. Do you agree? [Yes/No] (To be clear, please assume an MHL isn't in place.)
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Old 01-25-15, 10:07 PM
  #1004  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Here is a question for the hand full of anti helmet posters here. Since you argue that you are fantastic bike handlers an the ultimate safe riders, when in your car do you drive without seat belts, and disarm your air bags. Do you tell members of your family you have done so because of your superior driving skills? Seat belts and air bags are auto safety devices, a helmet is one of a bike riders safety devices.

So----------can you still argue I am wrong when I say accident happen, and you never know when.
One of your problems is that you change statements like "I don't take risks on the bike so don't have a significant risk of crashing and landing on my head" into statements like "you argue that you are fantastic bike handlers an the ultimate safe riders".

In case you were wondering why no one takes your stuff seriously here.
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Old 01-25-15, 10:08 PM
  #1005  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
By now everyone posting here knows I support at least a modicum of safety when cycling. That of course includes a helmet.

Since this forum wanders some, let me give you another example of cycling safety. I ride my tadpole trike about half the time. I use clip in pedals rather than just platform pedals. If you are not clipped in your foot may slip off the pedals in a bump, and get partially pulled under the frame causing scrapes and maybe a broken foot.

The bottom line here is that personal safety falls in the line of common sense and logic. There for in my case when on the trike I wear a helmet and use clip in pedals. And that is in light that on my trike, as low as I sit the need for a helmet is probably the lowest in any form of cycling. It still remains that sh---stuff happens.
This is a thread about helmets. If you want to talk about clipless pedals you should go start a thread about them.
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Old 01-25-15, 10:09 PM
  #1006  
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Originally Posted by tractorlegs View Post
If you live in a world ruled by a big purple dinosaur . . . .

Although I consider cycling very, very safe, I wouldn't base a decision to go helmetless on the assumption that you're not ever gonna crash because cycling is so "safe". I would choose to wear one (or not) on its ability to protect my head when the inevitable crash happens.
I haven't crashed a road bike in more than two decades. And I've never landed on my head. Frankly, I feel kind of bad for people who think crashing is inevitable.
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Old 01-25-15, 10:47 PM
  #1007  
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Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
One of your problems is that you change statements like "I don't take risks on the bike so don't have a significant risk of crashing and landing on my head" into statements like "you argue that you are fantastic bike handlers an the ultimate safe riders".

In case you were wondering why no one takes your stuff seriously here.
I'm not sure he's even wondering about that...
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Old 01-25-15, 10:50 PM
  #1008  
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You're almost certainly right.

But then, you thought you were going to get a straight answer from Mr. Don't Blame Me I'm From Massachusetts, so I guess we're both a little na´ve, hmm?
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Old 01-25-15, 10:52 PM
  #1009  
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Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
I haven't crashed a road bike in more than two decades. And I've never landed on my head. Frankly, I feel kind of bad for people who think crashing is inevitable.
And I've had only 2 crashes in 40+ years. But I had those two crashes, and you had yours -- albeit over 20 years ago. They happen sometimes, even if rarely.
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Old 01-25-15, 11:00 PM
  #1010  
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Originally Posted by tractorlegs View Post
And I've had only 2 crashes in 40+ years. But I had those two crashes, and you had yours -- albeit over 20 years ago. They happen sometimes, even if rarely.
They happened to me because I was racing. I suspect that any kind of mass-start racing makes crashing inevitable. And I suspect that many other kinds of bike riding also makes crashing inevitable. For me, it's off-road riding. Between the nature of the thing and the fact that I kind of suck at it, I fall. And because I fall, I wear my helmet.

But on the road, after I quit racing I switched to relatively upright randonneuring bikes with stable handling and wide tires, and I take absolutely no chances at all. While I admit to the possibility of crashing that bike in those circumstances, it strikes me as pretty unlikely, and history so far bears this out.

So "inevitable" - as in "If you ride a bike you will eventually crash" - will always seem a very sad testament, to me.

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Old 01-25-15, 11:10 PM
  #1011  
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Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
You're almost certainly right.

But then, you thought you were going to get a straight answer from Mr. Don't Blame Me I'm From Massachusetts, so I guess we're both a little na´ve, hmm?
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Old 01-26-15, 06:43 AM
  #1012  
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Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
They happened to me because I was racing.
I didn't know you were a racer - - Some day I need to pick your mind, and get to know you better
I suspect that any kind of mass-start racing makes crashing inevitable.
Which is one of the reasons I would never race lol
And I suspect that many other kinds of bike riding also makes crashing inevitable. For me, it's off-road riding. Between the nature of the thing and the fact that I kind of suck at it, I fall. And because I fall, I wear my helmet.

But on the road, after I quit racing I switched to relatively upright randonneuring bikes with stable handling and wide tires, and I take absolutely no chances at all. While I admit to the possibility of crashing that bike in those circumstances, it strikes me as pretty unlikely, and history so far bears this out.

So "inevitable" - as in "If you ride a bike you will eventually crash" - will always seem a very sad testament, to me.
True, true -- May have been a poor choice of words on my part. Nevertheless, not many riders have your experience and ride with your level of expertise and safety.
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Old 01-26-15, 09:05 AM
  #1013  
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I would like to point out something to the worlds greatest cyclist and anti helmet crowd. Let be give you some advice I have learned in my 76+ years of life. You claim you alway ride safe, and will never crash.

NEVER say never, and NEVER say always. The fickle finger of fate has a way of goosing you when you least expect it.
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Old 01-26-15, 10:33 AM
  #1014  
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As a reply to both of the above, I'll mention that I don't consider myself any kind of magician on the bike. I'm merely competent, at least on a road bike, and that doesn't seem like a unattainable standard. I also have never claimed that I will "never" crash. I have merely claimed that I am pretty unlikely to, and even if I do, I am very unlikely to strike my head. Again, this is claimed on decades of experience.

It is akin to claiming that I do not need a helmet while walking, because even though some people do fall and strike their heads while walking, it has never happened to me and is pretty unlikely to in the foreseeable future. That does not make me some kind of incredibly talented walker...
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Old 01-26-15, 10:35 AM
  #1015  
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Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
That's a pretty good example of why I don't bother much with your stuff. You don't read carefully enough to even know how to spell the words in your interlocutor's posts. Your syntax is so weird that sentences have to be read repeatedly before I understand what you're trying to say. You make a statement and then support it with something that doesn't actually support it at all, and exercise a very basic logical fallacy in the process. And the whole thing is packaged in this vague tone of anger and offense.

There's truly no point.


Complaining about typos? Really?

You aren't making any sense with the other stuff either.

And the "ragequit" nonsense is still a fantasy (the point you are ignoring).

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Old 01-26-15, 04:55 PM
  #1016  
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Originally Posted by karann9 View Post
I am relatively new to biking. Just got my hands on a 2015 Trek 7.2 FX. Looking for a casual commuting helmet to which I may attach some lights. Any suggestions?

(I just assumed that this being a helmet thread, this would be the right place to ask this question but if not, please guide me to the right one.)
If you bought the bike new, see what the shop has for helmets and what they recommend. If it's a recent new bike purchase, see if they will grant you some kind of accessories discount if one was not offered in the first place. The same place which sold you a Trek should also sell the Trek house brand of helments, Bontrager. The Solstice is their cheapest helmet, one size fits most; next level up is the Quantum, which comes in different sizes for better fit and style. These are more typical bike style helmets, with many vents and some angular styling.

Most shops also sell other helmet brands and even though I work in primarily a Trek shop, Bontrager no longer markets a nice skate-style/"Urban" helmet with fewer vents and a rounded shape. I used to wear a Giro Section, still in production, now wear a Surface, which looks like it has been discontinued, or replaced by their Sutton/Reverb soft brim design.

When I eventually need to replace mine, I'll also be looking into POC (Receptor and Crane models) and Bern helmets, with Bern probably getting the nod due to visors. I like visors...

You should be able to hook up lights to any of these. I gave up on a helmet mounted headlight, but my Giro Surface has a zip tie through two back holes to accommodate a blinky red taillight.
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Old 01-27-15, 07:49 AM
  #1017  
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Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
I haven't crashed a road bike in more than two decades. And I've never landed on my head. Frankly, I feel kind of bad for people who think crashing is inevitable.
But can you say for absolute certain you wont be involved in an accident tomorrow?? Or maybe on May 3rd.
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Old 01-27-15, 08:56 AM
  #1018  
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I wear one. I have always demanded that my kids wear one. Not sure how my daughter would have fared without hers at 5 when she crashed. I do not want to know. Ryan Smiths father urges any who ride to wear one The Ryan Smith Foundation

You can choose not to wear one.

I choose to wear one.

Carry on
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Old 01-27-15, 10:22 AM
  #1019  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
I would like to point out something to the worlds greatest cyclist and anti helmet crowd. Let be give you some advice I have learned in my 76+ years of life. You claim you alway ride safe, and will never crash.

NEVER say never, and NEVER say always. The fickle finger of fate has a way of goosing you when you least expect it.
My question to you is, why not apply the same great principle to other daily activities? Why limit it to cycling?
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Old 01-27-15, 11:09 AM
  #1020  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
But can you say for absolute certain you wont be involved in an accident tomorrow?? Or maybe on May 3rd.
No. But neither can you, regardless of the activity. And that's the whole point, despite the fact that you'll dismiss it because this is a bicycle site: people weigh risks and benefits all the time, and come up with various solutions based upon their own data. That their solutions might not match yours does not make hem stupid, Darwin candidates, organ donors, or anything else.

I mean, sometimes I do wear a walking helmet, if I'm walking up mountains with ropes. That doesn't mean everyone should wear a walking helmet for every walk, and it doesn't mean that I'd call you names on the internet if you measure your risks of walking and decide to do it bareheaded - even though you can't say for absolute sure that you won't have a walking accident tomorrow.
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Old 01-27-15, 11:53 AM
  #1021  
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Playing the numbers like some of the anti helmet posters he do, is just that playing the numbers. Remember if you flip a coin 100 times, and every time it came up heads, the odds on the next flip are still 50-50. Just because you have not had an accident for 20 years does not mean you wont have one tomorrow. Defy the odds and wear a helmet.
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Old 01-27-15, 12:06 PM
  #1022  
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The intellectual laziness is astounding.
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Old 01-27-15, 03:40 PM
  #1023  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Playing the numbers like some of the anti helmet posters he do, is just that playing the numbers. Remember if you flip a coin 100 times, and every time it came up heads, the odds on the next flip are still 50-50. Just because you have not had an accident for 20 years does not mean you wont have one tomorrow. Defy the odds and wear a helmet.
What are the odds of a sober adult riding a Townie at 12mph around the cul-de-sac having a crash AND hitting their head in such a manner that they have brain damage or die? One in a million? One in ten million? So if every time I get on my bike my odds are one in a million of cracking my skull open, perhaps I am willing to take that chance.

Now what about the professional downhill freestyle bike racer. What are his chances of brain damage or death with every competitive ride? Maybe one in a thousand? Or would it be one in ten-thousand? Certainly his chances of injury would be much greater than the Townie guy, yet if he goes 9,999 rides without busting his head open, he STILL has a one in ten-thousand chance of getting hurt on the 10,000th outing right? He is not CERTAIN to crack his skull once every 10,000 rides is he?

My cycling actually falls between those two examples and I wear a helmet 100% of the time. It's a habit and I enjoy wearing hats anyway. Given how many people play the Lotto in the USofA, I don't think most folks have a very good grasp of probability and math anyway. I doubt they think about all that before they put on their helmet, or not.

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Old 01-27-15, 04:08 PM
  #1024  
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I must question the judgement of several bare-headers here (and even a few helmeteers). Not because they ride without a helmet, but because they keep trying to engage in reasonable debate with ryda. Guys, you know this is hopeless.
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Old 01-27-15, 04:30 PM
  #1025  
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5 View Post
I must question the judgement of several bare-headers here (and even a few helmeteers). Not because they ride without a helmet, but because they keep trying to engage in reasonable debate with ryda. Guys, you know this is hopeless.
I'm not in a debate. I am just keeping my typing skills sharp between jobs. Mission accomplished.
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