Keith99

Several years ago there were some cases of 'good blood' between cyclists and the horse set near me. When someone shows up for a trail maintenance event, sees there are far too few people there and by the end of the day realizes almost half of the people who did show are from the other 'hated' group at least some people shift their mindset a little.

kickstart

Catch and release lane taking cyclist....

Perspective can be a dangerous thing, which is why I question those who try to physically control what others do, too often it leads to bad choices.

CliffordK

I went to a trail work party a year or two ago that was half cyclists, and half horse people. It was a good day, and we made some progress. People did have their own little groups, but in the end, it didn't really matter who was carrying the shovels.

The point is, however, if the trails are on public land, then they should be open to the public, no matter who put in the bridges and did the brush clearing.

Now, the government should be able to do some regulation for safety and enjoyment of the people, but the regulations shouldn't be made only by small groups of users of the public land at the detriment to other users.

Some of the "MTB Courses" in the Vancouver area look a little bit over the top, and should be regulated too. It is not that the entire hillsides should be given over to the MTBs to do with as they see fit, although perhaps small areas could be given special status.

Thinking about user groups, we have dunes around here, leading to the inevitable clash between dune buggies and hikers. However, it is my opinion that the government should utilize the dune buggies as a control for European Beach Grass which is a very damaging invasive species. Move the dune buggies to wherever one doesn't want the grass growing.

Dave Cutter

That isn't the proper use/meaning for bigotry.... And a superiority complex is merely a psychological defense mechanism.

I think a lot of people dislike cyclists... unfortunately.... for good reasons. Although I can't recall ever being treated poorly by the non-cycling public. I think we could all do a better job of being easier to get along with.

I'd guess someone(s) pissed the crazy old lady off... and she was getting even (Occam's razor).

headloss 

That's par for the course anywhere in the Pac.NW. That's where I'd throw my money.

genec

I don't want to make a big deal of it... but the definition of bigotry works for this situation...

big·ot·ry
ˈbiɡətrē/
noun
intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.
"the difficulties of combating prejudice and bigotry"

Intolerance is exactly what I meant... with regard to the view that some may have against cyclists.

Bigotry may be a bit too strong of a word... but it does work here. Perhaps mere "intolerance" would have been sufficient... but that intolerance does lead to some rather hateful acts at times...

Dave Cutter

A person can be intolerant of another's disliked actions (or believes). Of course the word itself implies an action. As not acting out... would be "tolerating".

genec

The difference between mere intolerance toward actions or beliefs and outright bigotry is the action taken.

There was action taken in this case that targeted a specific class of person... the bike rider.

wphamilton

"Crazy" doesn't really need a confrontation or incident to trigger, so the simplest explanation with fewest entities is she was mad about the trails and acted on it. But I can't really find enough about this to form an opinion about her state of mind.

Taking the descriptions at face value, she set up obstacles "in such a way" as to potentially cause a wreck. So assuming that's right, assuming she knew that, sure there's something seriously off about her. There would be something "off" about placing any obstacles there, in such way or otherwise. But I have to admit that I'm really uneasy about "setting a trap and mischief to public property".

daihard 

Why do you assume I brought that up because the offender was a woman?

I didn't mean to justify the action of the woman. I just mentioned a potential reason for her action.

daihard 

My bad, my bad. I'm getting there myself, if not next year...

mconlonx

Is this the best we can do?!? This is A&S!!! She tried to KILL cyclists on purpose by sabotaging cycling trails! If she's the same one who strung rope or wire across the trail, she deserves no less than a public beheading!

Dave Cutter

Bigotry... is completely internal. Bigotry is not conditional on another's actions or behaviors (or anything else)... no one can make someone else bigoted. Tolerance is accepting... or merely withholding response to conditions that provoke a response. Responding to actions that society deems acceptable is called: intolerance.

Google does a much better job of defining words than I do. But even with Google... most people can not properly find or describe their feelings. People tend to just use buzz words. I remember a study from years ago where people were tested and asked to assign the proper emotional response to certain events. People just could not identify the proper/correct/actual emotions/feelings.

CliffordK

The rope was a different trail, I think. The cable report was a logging cable that had been in the woods for decades, and apparently the police didn't have a good explanation for how it got across the trail, but couldn't prove malice. I certainly would not justify stringing ropes across a trail.

Again, there is no clear description of the obstructions that this woman allegedly placed in the trail, or whether they were intended to be avoidable by the cyclists, and whether there was any actual risk to the cyclists. They are called traps and a danger in the article, but news isn't always reported without bias.

Note, the death also linked in the article was apparently related to an obstacle that the MTB riders had put in themselves (teeter plank).

Should we put Mother Nature on trial for dropping logs and rocks on the trails in unexpected locations?

I've moved debris off of trails when I encounter it for decades. But, usually do my trail work directed towards the sport that I enjoy. Should I be guilty of ignoring low lying logs? Cutting a log from 3' high down to trail level?

rumrunn6

that looks like a pretty gnarly & narrow trail, wutz an old lady doing walking around by herself on that for?

mconlonx

Damn your reasoned response and actual facts, WE WANT BLOOD!!!

CliffordK

Mom just turned 74, and is still out riding trails on her horse, usually with friends, but she is often with 1000+ pound animals by herself.

No doubt there are forum members who ride their bikes well into their 60's and 70's, sometimes alone.

Someone just posted an article about bicycling as the fountain of youth. Just getting outside and getting some exercise is good for everyone.

As far as"traps", I would consider anybody that intentionally throws and breaks a beer bottle onto the side of the road, shoulder, or bike path as laying a trap, and should be given the death penalty. It endangers riders by forcing them to take evasive action, sometimes with traffic (although I usually go over the glass and take my lumps if I see a car behind me). How does one prove intent to cause harm (other than the rope thing that may be unrelated).

spdracr39

Our streets and neighborhoods are being destroyed by drug dealers and gang members but I have never thought of digging holes with punji sticks to stop them. (Ok I have thought of it but would never do it) So no I don't understand her thought process at all.

Fargo Wolf

North Vancouver woman accused of setting traps for mountain bikers - News - North Shore News

Check out the replies left by Monica Craver....

CliffordK

There is a longer comment by Monica Carver here. Was she the one that was caught?

I'm not sure of the trail density, or the propensity for MTB riders to stay on the existing trails. A few trails separated by hundreds of feet, or in some cases miles of forest land won't destroy the forest. But, of course, this may be more than a few trails.

Were these "authorized trails"?

What does the Forest Service do when they wish to close a trail, or route people off of old trails? They lay sticks across them.

KD5NRH

Doesn't look like she spends much time respecting the great outdoors...except by staying out of it.

prathmann

No.
Yes.
Sure, but at the beginning of the trail or similar location where it's safe to do so. Just like the highway department puts up wooden or concrete barriers to close the road at construction sites, but putting up similar though unauthorized barriers in the middle of a highway (esp. at turns or other locations with limited visibility) would not be regarded favorably. Sure drivers shouldn't be over-driving their forward sight distance, but it's still predictable that such barriers may well cause accidents.

Chris516

Catch and release lane taking cyclist? Can you explain that one?

kickstart

Cyclists that attempt to play traffic cop through gestures or other actions without any provocation or actual need other than personal desires.

wphamilton

@Chris516 "Catch and release lane taking" is taking the lane on a narrow road to keep traffic behind the cyclist and then moving over when the cyclist has decided that it's safe to pass.

I'm not sure, but I think a parallel was being drawn between the VC cyclist and the woman putting obstacles on the trail. In both cases, attempting to physically force vehicles to alter their speed. If so, a pretty weak comparison in my opinion.