I-Like-To-Bike

Makes as much sense as a cyclist "chasing down" a so-called road-ragin' cager in order to initiate an "interaction."

howsteepisit

I don't get that either.

Saving Hawaii

"Winning the hearts and minds."

spare_wheel

Is education a bad thing?

spare_wheel

Most of the time the interactions are civil and often they are positive. So, emphatically, yes.

B. Carfree

This is my experience as well. When I take the time to chat with a scofflaw motorist who has created unnecessary danger, we almost always part with kind words. Even the guy who one year later pulled out an AR-15 and blew a fellow motorist away in a semi-mutual road-rage event (murder trial begins shortly) wished me well when I left the parking lot where I had pulled in to ask him to give me the legally mandated space in the future.

Most motorists are almost completely ignorant of the law. Almost all of them think of themselves as good citizens. I assume that the system is failing them and approach them with the idea that they are good people who prefer to do what's right.

Chris516

I know I am sort of, taking this out of context. But this is something I have felt for a long time.

conanthewarrior

Things like this are why I cycle on the pavement in my area. I live in the UK, and the drivers in my area are under the impression cyclists shouldn't be on the road, and seem to see us as a target to take out.

I have been knocked off twice, verbally abused multiple times and assaulted.

I would much rather risk a fine for pavement cycling than my life. When the attitude of the majority of drivers change, I will be willing to go back on the roads.

enigmaT120

Do you guys call sidewalks "pavement"? For us, pavement refers to any paved surface and usually to roads.

Saving Hawaii

In the Queen's English "pavement" means what "sidewalk" does in Yankee English.

67Vert

Yes, you are missing the fact that there is snow. See post #50 . Apparently if it's snowing, you're not suppose to avoid crashing into cars. When on snowy paths, you should make sure to crash into vehicles and the say WTF repeatedly. It seems like a strange custom to me, but I'm from CA.

no motor?

Yikes! I gave up trying to change others years ago after talking with a guy who said he was a cop that got mad at me when I kept him from putting me in danger while he broke 2 laws. As we were talking I noticed the ****** in a holster on a *** belt he was wearing and figured I was wasting my time at best. I worry about being on the receiving end of an exchange like the one you mentioned now that Illinois has weakened the *** control laws.

mconlonx 

This is where states with concealed carry and stand your ground laws are awesome: car driver exits car, shoot them dead. You have to assume that they are armed and engaging in confrontation at risk to one's life, after all.

JoeyBike

Why did they cyclist even stop to talk? Just punch the vehicle and be on your way.

Like this:

https://vimeo.com/album/2757727/video/2293166 I had nothing to say to this moron.

JoeyBike

https://images.fineartamerica.com/ima...mcglothlen.jpg

genec

OK sure.

First you have deprived someone of a husband/father/wife/mother/whatever.
Second you will be arrested.
Third, wait for trial.
Fourth, pay big for lawyer.
Fifth, deal with jury who are all drivers.
Sixth, deal with bubba in jail who likes your nice firm behind.

Oh yeah that carry and defend idea was just great, eh?

RomansFiveEight

I think he misunderstands what "Stand your Ground" means, too. Stand your Ground laws don't mean you can shoot down anyone who bothers you. It simply, and exclusively, means that you have no duty to retreat. It has little to do with how the individual state laws define the justification for lethal force. In some states, without stand your ground, you could potentially be convicted of homicide if you shoot and kill someone who threatened you in some way but you had an opportunity to retreat and chose to fight back instead. With stand your ground, you do not have that obligation.

In EITHER circumstance, you have a duty to prove that you had reasonable fear for your life and had no other options. Driver getting out of a car doesn't qualify. Driving getting out of a car with a fire-arm? With a knife and lunging towards you? Rushing towards you and hitting you? Heck there's even been situations where after a fender bender, one driver gets out, the other is angry and tries to run down the first driver. First driver is armed (whether concealed carry, or a police officer off-duty, etc.), and the only way to stop the oncoming car is to shoot the driver. Even THAT has happened without legal recourse for the shooter. But what the poster described would be a quick and easy conviction.

Concealed carry where legal is intended to offer an opportunity for self defense from situations where your life is very seriously in danger. It's never intended, in any state, to be a way for vigilante justice where you can shoot down people who make you mad. Frankly anyone who HAS that attitude (I'll shoot someone who gets out of their car or looks at me crossways) shouldn't be anywhere near a firearm.

mconlonx 

In a concealed carry state, if you conceal carry, do you not assume that everyone is carrying? What about if the driver threw the vehicle in reverse in an attempt to run down an "offending" cyclist? Or at least has the potential to do so? What about if this driver intentionally tried to kill you, in your estimation...?

It's interesting to observe what cops charge those who "attack" them in a motor vehicle vs. what might be charged against drivers who intentionally interfere with the rights of way of riders -- if someone intentionally tries to kill you while riding legally on your bike, why not shoot them on site under stand your ground laws?

RomansFiveEight

No, concealed carry varies from "may issue" states where you essentially have to prove you 'need it', like someone who makes large bank deposits frequently or a person who had been previously victimized. To "shall issue" where anyone who asks for one, does the required training, and passes the background check is issued one. Even in "shall issue" states, the rate of CC holders is low and the rate of those who actually carry is even lower. All 50 U.S. states issue concealed carry permits; but vary on who can get them and whether they are even required. (Alaska, for example, allows you to carry a concealed weapon WITHOUT a permit. And here in Missouri and many states, you can carry a concealed weapon in your vehicle or in your home without a permit. Missouri being a 'shall issue' state, it really makes a lot more sense to just get the permit if that's your thing) In both Alaska and Missouri, and all other states, convicted Felons cannot carry a weapon, and cannot be issued a permit. In some states, it even goes further to individuals convicted of domestic violence (including misdemeanors), those convicted with certain drug violations, etc. Here in MO; carrying a firearm while intoxicated is a felony, even if it never leaves the holster. There are a lot of rules. It's not vigilante justice, it's self-defense with very specific rules.

Secondly, when the driver produces a weapon, or slams it into reverse, or whatever; the situation changes. Simply getting out of the car is not justification to shoot; you're not in danger. You don't get to shoot in CASE something happens. That's just not how it works. And, frankly, human life is worth a lot more than that. What if they shot YOU for getting off of your bicycle? Should the courts call it self defense because you MIGHT have done something wrong; maybe?

Fargo Wolf

*looks @ OP*

What can I say. some drivers are self entitled idiots...

JoeyBike

Are we really discussing shooting someone for a traffic violation? Man, I would have to be sponsored by an ammo company just to pay my rent if that were legal.

The cyclist in the OP video wanted a confrontation and got one. That's how I see it. People cut me off every day, sometimes multiple people in one day, and somehow I manage to avoid a collision and go about my business. I just don't have that kind of time.


Check the comments under the video. You might get enlightened.

daihard 

The general public in the U.S., you mean. Just about everyone in Japan has ridden a bicycle on the street for a few years, most likely before they are eligible to get a driver's license.