cyclotoine

I just picked one up for 75 bucks. The first bike I ever did a complete overhaul on way a Japanese Bianchi with winemann brakes and rims laced to suzue hubs and a shimano drive train (which I rescued from the scrap metal drop off). The one I just picked up has Suzue hubs with the oil clip like Record hubs, they look cool, laced to ambrosio rims, shimano generic brakes and suntour drive train (though both derailleurs are obvious upgrades), winpista alloy bars, SR stem and post, sugino cranks (possibly also an upgrade). Anyhow the hi manganese PG tubes make for a pretty light frame (I am impressed) and I wish it was my size but it's a 58. The rear axel was broken and the seat post is seized. No worries I will remove it and repair and resell. It's Gold in colour. I was just wondering if anyone know who made these frame for Bianchi etc...oh and it has a chrome fork which has yet to be removed to check for any info stamped on it.. also the drop outs are all stamped bianchi. I noticed a B stamped on the bottom of the shell and there is a SN on the seat tube near the bottom. I will report back with the SN if anyone thinks they can discern anything from it.
Cheers!

cyclotoine

hmm a personal thread.. pretty boring.. ishiwata fork. Seat post removed with some sawing. Carson italia brown (suede maybe?) sadle was also on this bike. oh and SR "custom" 100mm stem

Blue Order

Not to me. But I don't know anything about Japanese Bianchis...

cyclotoine

me either, that's why I'd like to know more.

luker

My guess, without pics, is that you have a Limited. They were made during the 80's with a pretty eclectic mix of Japanese parts, in Japan. The frame was made from various materials during this period, but is usually Tange or other Japanese material and manufacture. Bianchi tried to remain competitive by sourcing bikes cheaper than they could build 'em from Japan - and then selling 'em on foreign markets (like, say, here...). That seems to be a short term fix that doesn't work very well for anyone but the real manufacturer (look at American cars in the 80's).

I think Bianchi figured out the error of their ways, but now I read that Colnago is buying in with Giant...

Fred Smedley

We have a Bianchi Limited with BB reading G-6 on one side and 211 on the other. It is purple, has a made in Italy sticker at the base of the seat tube. It is very possible this frame was built in Japan, but painted and assembled in Italy allowing for the built in Italy sticker. The BB is British with a 68 mm shell.

Having two Miyata's, a Bridgestone and a Univega/Myata in the household as well as a R.C. built TSX Bianchi I would argue that being built in Japan is a a good thing not a negative.

luker

No, really, japanese bikes are pretty uniformly excellent in construction - they seem to suffer with thicker lugs, and if they are designed in Japan, seem to have a very conservative approach (in general, 3 Rensho in particular excepted). My '80 Araya is a very nice, very well built bike with a long front center - rapid handling is not one of its high spots.

For the Japanese Bianchi's - they were spec'ed and designed in Italy. I don't recall ever riding a Limited, but I'd expect them to ride and handle very well. Oh, and I have been schooled about this before - some of the Limited's (I am assuming the earlier ones) were built in Italy. Dunno if anyone actually has a timetable out there...

T-Mar

That's a really interesting Limited you have there. The serial number format indicates an Italian manufactured frame from 1986. The Japanese Bianchi frames that I've seen have used an entirely different serial number format. Though I haven't seen this with Bianchi, some companies do re-serialize the frames, so that it has the both their serial number and the contractor's serial number.

cyclotoine

Yes, I noted the thicker lugs on this bianchi. The lugs are not ornate at all and I place it between 80-85, I will post the serial number when I get home. The dropouts are very thick at the back which I like the look of. However, the craftsmanship, or perhaps more appropriately the attention to detail, is sub-par on this Bianchi in comparison to my Nishikis, my Norco and my Schwinns, granted they are all higher end bikes... but the Binachis lugs look much more "messy" I think is what I am looking for. The chrome on the isiwata fork did come up pretty nice after some polishing.

cyclotoine

SN on the seattube near the bottom: B5583105, seller said they bough it new in 82 for 500 he described the colour as champagne, Looking at it again I would have to agree with that description as opposed to gold, I actually like the colour and if it was my size I might keep it.

luker

There's really nothing wrong with it - and the frame sticker would imply that it is an early, made in Italy, version, so you can ride it whilst eating lasanga and drinking valipolcella, and remembering Fausto and Gino...

cyclotoine

the other posters purple model yes, this one is def, not italian. not that I have any qualms with that, the reason she is going is that it is not my size. I buy to resell because I like to always have a project on the go, my others are on hold or near complete and only need minor tweaking or are waiting on a part (or frame actually)... anyway...

T-Mar

Definitely not an Italian serial number. Unfortunately, I haven't enough data to decode the Japanese manufacturer(s)' serial number code. You can assume 1982 based on the seller's memory, or start investigating the date codes on the Shimano drivetrain. The price sounds about correct, assuming the age and $CDN. Yes, Bianchi literature usually referred to this color as champagne. It was usually paired with blue decals.

The 1980s, Japanese Bianchi were well manufactured, but I do not know who built the frames. I know the unbranded tubing on the 1983 and 1984 versions was Ishiwata, so your 1982 may be the same. Typically, the frame construction quality on a vintage Japanese bicycle is more consistent than an equivalent European bicycle of the same level and era. Regardless, if it's a Bianchi, an Italian frame will have the edge from a collectibility standpoint, particularly if it's celeste.

cyclotoine

T-Mar, the tubing sicker says: "Hi-Mn, high manganese tubing, P.G." I am right in assuming that "P.G." was the tubing manufacteurer?

T-Mar

Maybe, but I'd assume it meant plain gauge. What size is the seat post?

lyledriver

Cyclotoine,

I'm still interested in purchasing the frame for $75 if you cannot sell it with the Craigslist hipster markup=]

Let me know.

cyclotoine

seat post is 26.4mm, ironically the same size as the last seatpost I had to extract by means of a saw! ishiwata is the most likely tubing candidate as indicated by fork, but there are bikes with different tubing and forks, for example, some of the 80s schwinns, which came with tenax tubing and a tange fork.

cyclotoine

pics of frame in question

T-Mar

26.4mm is correct for a plain gauge, seat tube with a 1.0mm wall thickness. Most butted tubesets use a single butted seat tube, with the butt inserted into the bottom bracket. The seat post end is non-butted, resulting in thinner walls and larger seat posts, typically around 27mm. The only exception that I'm aware of is Tange, who used a double butted seat tube, but they typically used 26.8mm seat posts.

So the PG designation and seat post size both point towards a plain gauge tubeset. The historical usage points towards Ishiwata, and the label indicates Hi-Mn, so the most likely candidate is an Ishiwata Mangny tubeset.

leunkstar

Nice fork. Is that fork original with that frame?

lyledriver

Thanks for the frame Cyclotoine =D
I'll post pics here when its built up.

cyclotoine

awesome! I am sure the fork is the original, it has Bianchi stamped on the drop, out similar to the rear, did ishiwata make their own drop outs?

lyledriver

Just thought I would bump this to show you guys how it turned out:






I've put about 60km on it so far, making some minor adjustments.
A 41/15 gear ratio has me spinning at a decent pace for the hills on my commute.
Needless to say, I'm stoked to ride it to work tomorrow=D

cyclotoine

Hey nice work. what kind of paint did you use? Did you strip the old paint?

John E

That reminds me of "The Dancing Chain," with a picture of Gino Bartali shifting a Campag. Cambio Corsa derailleur [1st. ed., p. 154]. Now that's Italian!