MIjoe

You might think I'm an incredibly negative person from my posts thus far, but I need to get this off of my chest:

Finally finding someone to ride with, I recently pulled my '95 Specialized Rockhopper Comp FS (aluminum frame) from the closet and took it down to the local shop to buy some new pedals. As I was about to leave, one of the guys (my new hero) noticed some new interesting features in my head tube:






The shop guy probably saved me a few broken bones as I was planning to hit some trails the next day. I figure I was only a couple of downhills from the ultimate-travel fork (like disconnected from the frame).

Some of you may not be surprised until you learn a little background about the bike:
1) I've only taken it off-road maybe a dozen times
2) I've ridden it on-road far less than 5 miles a week, surely less than 1,500 miles total
3) I weighed under 200 pounds (215 now) when most of the miles where put on this bike ... a little heavy but not enough to explain this

I bought the bike from a shop that I worked at when I was in high school. I never got a reciept, never even thought about it. Now the shop is out of business and I have no proof that I am the original owner. It's not official yet, but I'd be pretty surprised if specialized actually warranteed the thing. I found out that, sometime within the last few years, they have reduced their warranty on Al bikes from lifetime to 5 years -- I don't think that I'm the first person with this problem. Any excuse not to warranty my bike will be taken advantage of, I'm sure.

I guess the high end Specialized bikes are pretty good quality, at least I hope so as I sold a ton of them to people. Also, to be fair I'm not sure if Specialized had made a lot of Al frames before this one. It is seven years old. I surely wouldn't recommend anyone purchasing an Al Specialized bike.

I've had enough bad experiences with Al, the frame always felt too stiff to me anyways. I'm now thinking about a replacement steel frame. I will surely have some questions about this migration, any comments are welcome.

I plan to get back into riding once I solve the whole no bike problem. I'm glad I found this forum and hopefully I can have some positive input in the future.

Weasel

Wicked photos MIjoe . Just goes to show......
And you were bloody lucky!

Richard D

Looks like you were lucky the bikeshop spotted it.

It's certainly an odd fracture.

To be fair on aluminium, two out of three bikeshops I asked when I was looking for a bike, said that the only problems they've ever had with aluminium frames was crash damage, and the third had only had two frame failures in the past five years, both on welds.

Bad luck on yours though.

Richard

Richard D

Coincidentally I picked up this months copy of Cycling Plus this lunchtime, and there was an article on frame repairs. They had an aluminium headtube replaced for approximately £50, which I guess would be about 75US$, so it might be worth talking to a frame builder. That didn't include re-painting, but uou might be able to live with the front 'au naturel' or tone it in with car paint.

Interestingly they suggested that although steel is easier to repair, aluminium tends to survive crashes better.

Richard

fubar5

How old was the frame when it cracked? 7 years it close to the end of the quality life for Aluminum.

a2psyklnut

I've owned a couple of Specialized bikes and cannot agree with MIJoe as his problem being specific to one manufacturer or another. I've seen all different brands break in some form or faction.

I seen pics of Santa Cruz bikes break, Turner's, Intense, GT's, Kona's, Rocky Mountain's, Cannondale's, Trek's, Gary Fisher's, Giant's...the list goes on. All TOP - OF - THE - LINE. Even some designed specifically for serious abuse!

I'd bet, If you did have a receipt, Specialized would say, "Here's your new frame----Enjoy!" and you'd be posting on "What a great company Specialize is". You screwed up and you're dissing a good company for something YOU did (or didn't do)! Take the blame and put it where it belongs! NOW learn from you stupidity!

Unfortunately for MIJoe, you didn't get a receipt for your bike. That's not really Specializes problem. Or anyone else's but your own. I'm not trying to be mean, just honest. Look at it from their point of view. No receipt, no proof of purchase, no "real" idea how the bike was ridden...etc. Use this a word of warning for everyone out there!

Get a receipt, & fill out a warranty card. I know they're a pain in the .... But most companies allow you to do this on-line now. Heck it's a great idea to write down the serial # while your at it in case your bike ever got stolen (God Forbid!).

stumpjumper

TAKE IT BACK TAKE IT BACK TAKE IT BACK!! Take it to any REPUTABLE Specialized dealer and see what they say. It cant hurt to ask, and its obiviously a '95 (only made that purple for a year or two) so its within it warranty.

I had a frame EXACTLY like that one (flat purple and all) that cracked at the bottom of the headtube. Your frame was sold back when Specialized offered limited LIFETIME warranty's on aluminum frames.

I was able to get mine replaced AT NO CHARGE, no questions asked, no receipt necessary, and am now riding on a 2002 frame.

Aluminum has a finite lifespan as a frame material will eventualy fail, especialy after 7 years. Dont fault the manufacturer, but rather see if they will work with you in a reasonable way.

I'm interested to know how you could have possably missed seeing cracks that ran the length of the head tube.

stumpjumper

Heres my old ride. I do miss it...

MIjoe

a2psyklnut:

Okay, was it stupid not to get a reciept? Yes. You think I don't know that? Telling me how stupid I am doesn't really accomplish anything, does it?

As far as being specific to any manufacturer, my bike has an S on the head tube right next to several cracks. It's hard to think it's such a great company after that. Even if I got a brand new bike out of the deal, that wouldn't change my opinion about the frame in question. It was flawed, no way around it. The bike was seven years old, but I RARELY rode it. A dozen times off road and 5 miles on-road a week is being generous. Does aluminum fatigue sitting in the closet?

I worked for the dealer when I purchased it. At the time it was probably the biggest dealer in Southeast Michigan. I didn't expect to go off to school and learn that it had gone bankrupt a year later. I was 18, and when they said "take that one", a cracked frame 7 years later was not the first thing on my mind.

I haven't condemed Specialized yet, the order should have been placed directly to them and they should have record of it. Here is the fun though, that bike got lost in our system (there were a couple of dozen stores) and I ended up with one out of regular inventory, which will have a different serial number than what Specialized would have on record. I am basically screwed.

As for not seeing the cracks, how often do you guys check your frame over for cracks? I never did it, but surely will now. I worked in shops for a couple of years and never saw anything like that, never would have expected it. Also, I took pretty good photographs in good light, they aren't that noticeable in person.

Also, only one specialized dealer in town and I already tried working through him with no results. He never called me back and I got sick of hearing that he wasn't able to talk to anybody yet.

You guys can go out and buy whatever you want and think it's great, I don't really care. If you think Specialized is the greatest company on earth than go right on believing that. I just thought some people would be interested in seeing these photos.

Rather than fix this frame I'll probably get a high quality steel frame, I think I'll be happier. I never had any extraordinary love for that frame.

Thanks for your input.

Insert bike ->

stumpjumper

dude, read your own topic title.


For the record, I dont care if you're stupid or not, or what kind of bike you buy next. Steel has a longer "shelf life" and is probably the way to go for you anyway. I was trying to be helpful in saying that Specialized did right by me and offeres a new frame WITHOUT seeing a receipt, NO questions asked.

I say try for the new frame. If you get one, sell it on ebay and put the cash towards the steel bike of your dreams.

If you dont at least try, then dont condem the company, and dont bi7ch to us. The company cant help you if they dont even know you have a problem.

John E

Do not feel bad about not noticing the cracks; I do not know how long I rode my Peugeot UO-8 with a cracked chainstay. [Steel cracks, too!] I had removed the rear wheel and was cleaning and preparing the BB for mudguard installation when I noticed what at first appeared to be a scratch on the stay. By the way, I bought my high-end (Tange Prestige II CrMo) 1988 Schwinn mountain bike in 1993 from the first owner, for whom Schwinn had previously replaced the 4-year-old original frame under warranty.

I wonder whether your head tube cracks could have been caused by an improperly-installed headset. For example, if the ends of the tube were not dressed to be precisely perpendicular to its axis, then some of the compressive force on the bearings would be directed fore-and-aft, leading to the eventual deformation or splitting of the tube.

Staceulles

Aw jeez. I'm so confused now. Just like yesterday I was talking about what's better, aluminum vs. steel and now it's all just down hill. Ha, actually no, cause I mean this could happen to anyone, EVEN if they were riding a steel bike. I guess it just depends on your luck with the type of manufacturing the company did and how you treated your bike. Did you keep it on its kickstand? Did you throw it down on the ground? Did it fall a lot? Yeah... so umm... yeah, but hey, it's good to see that other people had opposing views and love aluminum bikes. If you ask me, steel bikes are pretty heavy. They're a pain in the butt to get up hills! At least that's what I think. Then again it's a Huffy and uh... yeah that's all I have to say.

MIjoe

stumpjumper--

I did appreciate your post. It was the other guy that felt the need to post about how stupid I was that my comments were directed at.

Okay, poor choice of title for the thread. "Pics of cracked Al Specialized frame" would have been less of a condemnation. But, as I said I couldn't see recommending an Al Specialized to anybody.

dude-- read my posts. I did admit that I still thought high end Specialized bikes (like your precious stumpjumper, I assume) were good quality. The lack of condemnation was in regards to customer service, I'm still holding out hope. The local dealer has been useless, I got sick of calling and getting nowhere. I talked to a specialized customer service rep today and we'll see if that goes anywhere. I'll keep everybody up to date.

You can't argue with me, though about one fact:

I didn't ride that bike much, and it definitely cracked

Although, clearly this is sort of a b7tch session, I thought that, at least in my original post, I kept that to a minimum. Would you rather not know that things like this can happen? If so I'll just keep my mouth shut.

John E-- good point about the headset, I didn't build the bike so I can't say. That sort of thing would have been done in the factory.

Stacey-- a steel huffy and a quality steel frame are completely different beasts. A good steel frame can be nearly as light as Al. Moving from a huffy you'll be happy either way, and most affordable entry level bikes are Al these days. I wouldn't hesitate buying Al if I were you. I'm getting old and hoping that a nice steel frame will give a little more comfort.

I'm not trying to upset anybody, just letting people know about my experience. You can't blame me for being upset, can you?

Peace

VegasCyclist

well I actually check for cracks everytime I clean my frame and reoil my chain, it's just a quick look over to make sure I don't have to carry my bike home in pieces

I have put my steel GT through a lot of abuse, and surprisingly it still is working fine

What is interesting is that the majority of frame cracks come on the welds, every type of weld (depending on the material used to weld it) has a certain amount of strain it can take. so after a while it will break if it reaches that point. so for the frame to crack on the head tube like that suggests what John E said. The press was maybe a few mm off when it put the cups in, and as a result the head tube was strained

It might be worth while, to just contact specialized direct, calling a 1-800 number?

I'd say yeah it's a bummer that your bike cracked, but be glad that it wasn't worse, you could have gone riding on a trail and the bike could have failed completely. Anyways guys I think we all need to calm down, specialized does make good bikes, but it is a fact they changed thier warrenty to reflect the possibility of cracking on Al frames.

Good Luck with trying to get a new frame from specialized

(lets all try to get along while we're at it)

a2psyklnut

Hey MIJoe,

I just reread my post and want to apologize for the "stupidity" comment. I try not to be offensive and derrogatory, so consider this a sincere apology for the negativism. I guess I was in a piss poor mood when I wrote that and you felt the brunt of my misplaced frustration.

What I was TRYING to say, was that damage like yours in not uncommon regardless of who makes the frame or with what material the frame is made out of. I've seen bikes where the top tube and bottom tube have cracked and the whole front end of the bike broke off!

I did notice in another thread where you mentioned: . Perhaps the last time you rode, you did something to damage the frame and didn't notice it! Maybe you did an endo off of too big a drop and went over the handlebars, or slammed into a tree or something like that!

I do hope for your sake that Specialized does right and replaces the frame for you! Like mentioned, you could sell it if you're turned off by Specialized, but I gotta say again. This isn't specific to just one company. If you abuse em, they'll break regardless of who made them.

Once again, I apologize and hope you keep posting and hanging around.

L8R I raise my glass as an offer of peace!

stumpjumper

For the record, I actualy do own a stumpy, and its steel
(Also for the record, the moniker "stumpjumper" is an adjective and not a proper noun.)

Sorry, guy- I should have read it all the way through and not just the last few posts. AmIbad.

Honestly, 'though: I ride the same rockhopper you do (did) and had the same problem and wanted you to at least try to get a new frame. The big "S" has always done ok by me in terms of service and support.

As far as service goes, I guess its all in what shop you go to. I happily drive over an hour to get to Montgomery Cyclery in Cincinnati. They kick ***.

I'd send you my old receipt, but I think I tossed it when the new frame came in.

Good luck with the new bike. Do let us know how it goes.

MIjoe

Thanks guys, this doesn't seem like something we needed to bicker endlessly about. Apologies accepted and I apologize for being a bit overzealous in my criticism of Specialized. Like I said, I worked for a Specialized dealer for a couple of years and had a great opinion of them prior to this. I was sort of at my peak of disappointment when I wrote the title to the thread, should have been a little more diplomatic.

John E and VegasCyclist do make a good point though; the strange way my frame fractured seems to suggest an improperly installed headset, a manufacturing flaw. But, this could be isolated to one bike or one production run, and I suppose no company is really immune to that. I do find it unnerving that the warranty is now only 5 years. I think that should be a clue to anybody shopping for a bike.

A customer service rep at Specialized is supposed to call me back, we'll see what happens. I have a little money saved up, so I'll be getting back on the trails eventually no matter what.

Cheers

The Toninator

I have a 2001 specialized stumpjumper comp. It is in and can no way be compared to the bike you bought 7 years ago. I like my bike and recommend the brand to other people. Defects happen.

My truck had an oil leak from a faulty oil pan gasket from the factory. The defect was warranted. It is now 115,000 miles later and the truck still runs great. I recommend fords to my friends. Defects happen.

MIjoe

Okay, I've spewed enough in this thread, but let me attempt to sum up:

My Al Specialized frame cracked and it should not have. Specialized now only warrantees these frames for 5 years, rather than the original lifetime warranty. If you're considering an Al Specialized, you should consider these facts.

But hey, I didn't even take my own advice

Talking directly to Specialized was the way to go. The local dealer had tried to warranty my bike, and said that Specialized wouldn't do it without a reciept. I pled my case directly with Specialized with much better results; here was the offer:

1) free replacement frame, I cover shipping, labor (would have done it myself), and any incompatible components

2) 1/2 off full retail for a new comparable bike

I went with #2. While I'm not totally sure, I think my old fork is 1,1/4 while the new one is 1,1/8. There is a few hundred bucks right there. Then, I think I would have needed new brakes and levers (can you mount old-style brakes where V-brakes are supposed to go?). After new parts, shipping, and labor, I would likely have exceeded the $450 I got the new Rockhopper comp for. Plus, I got some big upgrades; Manitou Elite SIX fork versus old school RockShox Quad5 (yuck); 9-sp LX versus 7-sp STX in the rear; and this bike is WAY lighter than my old rockhopper comp.

There are a couple of things I'm not crazy about; the hubs, brakes, shifters, and front deraileur all appear to be of lower quality than what I had, but what the heck, I can always upgrade after I bust them. I did like the idea of a steel replacment frame, this bike is Al. I can live with these drawbacks. That was what they were offering and I could live with it. I just couldn't imagine paying full price after what little use I got out of the old rockhopper.

My hope that Specialized has good customer service has been proven true. While I still think the old frame had a flaw, and the 5 year warranty eaks me, the company took care of me and that counts for a lot. They didn't jump at the chance to take care of me, but in the end they made me happy.

Looks like I'll be back in action way sooner than I thought. Thanks for the fun this thread has been, and stumpjumper, thanks for encouraging me to keep on the warranty thing.

See you on the trails!

Richard D

Glad Specialized came through for you - sounds like a perfectly good deal under the circumstances.

Whilst I'd like a lifetime warranty on my frame (Giant), I'm fairly happy with five years - I can't think of many products that come with a warranty that long. Out of interest what sort of warranty do you normally get on cars?

Richard

stumpjumper

Kick A$$! Thats the same deal they offered me on my 95 Aluminum Rockhopper comp frame. Glad it worked out.

MIjoe

Richard:
Funny you should ask. I'm waiting for delivery on my new jeep (too cute little Liberty thing, all I could afford). Daimler Chrysler is running a free 7 year/ 100,000 mi extended powertrain warranty promo right now. I should be plenty happy with that. It's my first new car so "normally" I get no warranty (used). New car and a new bike in the same month, I'm rolling in style now.