best way to improve braking?
 

I was about to replace my bike's stock Shimano R561 brake calipers with some Shimano 5800 series brakes, but now I'm wondering if that is really necessary. The stock brakes on my Scott CR1 seem a bit chattery on big decents, but does that have more to do with the stock pads than the calipers. I have no weight/aesthetic issues with the R561s, but I would like to feel some more solid braking. Am I correct that the easiest/best fix is probably just some new pads? (Kool Stop, Swiss, etc)

I would start with pad setup first- are they hitting the rim properly? Are they toed-in correctly? If all that is correct, then I might think about new pads. But you also need to be braking properly. You shouldn't be riding the brakes on a long descent, only scrubbing off some speed occasionally (if at all).

New pads can really help. I'm partial to KookStop Salmon pads.

What can also help is cleaning the braking surface of the rims. I use extra fine steel wool soaked in rubbing alcohol to remove grim from the braking surface. (Not on carbon fiber rims though.) Then I wipe off the surfaces with a wet rag.

^ This.

Do not use steel wool on aluminum. It induces galvanic corrosion. Use aluminum wool.
Cheers,
David in Alaska

Thanks everyone. I guess step one will be checking the brake setup. The wheels I'm using are practically brand new, so I'm doubting cleaning the rims is an issue. If adjusting the setup does not work, I'll move on to new pads. I typically don't ride the brakes, but I'm pretty *** shy after a bad descent a few years ago, and when there are lots of switchbacks involved I tend to be more heavy handed on the brakes.

And why does it put up *** instead of the word "***?"

Okay, the word gnu, but I'm not talking about an animal, it's a common phrase which uses a 3 letter word for firearm... Is this new in the forum?

The first question is whether you feel you need more help stopping -- more braking power -- or simply want quieter, smoother action when stopping. The two are slightly related, but involve completely different solutions.

More power calls for clean rims, and a good high friction brake shoe. That gives you the most friction for any given brake pressure. If that isn't enough, then you want a system with more leverage or lever travel compared to shoe travel.

Noise and vibration depend on the rim condition, proper shoe adjustment, and the rigidity of the brake caliper. Most brakes allow for some adjustment of caliper arm play on the pivots, and you want the absolute minimum, ie zero, while still allowing the arms to move freely. Also better brakes usually have stiffer arms and that helps improve rigidity.

IMO- start with what's free. Use some strong dish detergent on a sponge to clean the rims and rinse completely (soap water is slippery). Remove the shoes, and use a file to deglaze the surface and bring up fresh rubber, then reinstall with about 1/16" toe-in. That should give you decent braking power for free. New shoes may help, but you have a decision. KS salmon shoes are formulated for best wet performance, but the standard black ones are better otherwise, so pick the shoes accordingly.

If you're stopping well, but with vibration, check arm play, and give the newly cleaned rims some time to settle in and see if things improve. Otherwise better stiffer brakes may be in your future.

Kool Stop salmon. The *** thing has been around a long while. Move on, don't get them started....

The forum uses a canned auto censor that blocks the kind of words that parental security, or school filters might flag to mark the site as unfit. It's a crude censor, which doesn't use discretion, but it is what it is. Don't sweat it, type your post, and people will get your meaning.

Unless I missed it, this hasn't been answered specifically so I'll answer it here. The brakes are not the problem. All of Shimano's dual pivot calipers from basic to Dura Ace work great so don't replace them thinking you need better ones.

Start with proper setup and get some Kool Stop salmon pads if you still want improvement. I use the salmon pads on all my bikes because I like them and they seem to be easiest on the rims.

No, but its now automatic ..

People kept posting about how shall I Carry "Heat" On the Bike? . Mods move those subjects to The Political section.

You can use Euphemisms and people can get the Idea.. Indirectly..



Once you get the mechanics of Braking Down, you can work on The Physics , such as straight arming, Pushing your Butt back of the saddle and Low,
so when You grab the lever hard , the back wheel stays down, wont Flip you over the bars,

as it Does a front stoppie and the bike comes right over throwing You on the road.

Nope. Maybe if you wetted down the steel wool and let it stand on the aluminum for a few months, you could get a tiny amount of galvanic corrosion. But only if you kept the parts wet and the steel wool didn't oxidize completely. That's a big if as well. Steel wool has a lot of surface area and oxidizes quickly. The rust formed is electrochemically inert and covers any fresh steel surface that could come in contact with the aluminum surface...which is also oxidized.

This is probably the best advice of the thread. Most any brake will do a good job of stopping a bike as long as the rider knows how to use the brakes. Learning the proper technique will do more to improve stopping power and distance than any brake pad. Moving your center of mass back and down as little as 4" and 2" respectively almost doubles the rate of deceleration.

I use the DA pads from shimano. They work in the wet and dry.

Yes, exactly. If the pads are ok as is braking technique is the first thing to upgrade.

Braking technique, solid brakes (Shimano Dura-Ace, Ultegra and 105 are all fine) and SwissStop brake pads. I especially like the SwissStop in that the rubber compounds used don't eat up my aluminum braking surfaces.

More likely semiautomatic. Many misuse the term automatic when it's really a semiautomatic. Kinda like clip vs detachable magazine....but you probably already gnu that.

The *** is put in whenever you try to jump the *** with any analogy..

Actually a Scotchbrite pad or plastic "scrubbie" works even better and is easier on the rims.

As to the Forum's sensorship, it's been doing that a while if you type g u n as one word you get ***. If you type it as part of a compound word such as staplegun, it comes out ok. Quite annoying.

Steel wool on aluminum rims won't cause any discoloration or corrosion because any steel fragments get wiped off as soon as the brakes are used. However using steel wool on a stationary metal surface can cause rust "freckles" to form which are unsightly at best. Most marine fittings are stainless steel these days and use of regular steel wool on them is a definite no-no because of the freckles that appear soon after. Boat owners are advised to use stainless steel or bronze wool.

Nevertheless, as I noted above a plastic scrubber is sufficient and easier on the rims.

So red or green Scotchbrite pads ?

Probably doesn't matter much but the finer "grit" ones are better. You are cleaning the rim, not removing metal.

The freckles you mention still aren't due to galvanic corrosion. They are simply oxidation of the small steel fragments that will spall off the steel wool. They can be easily remove with more steel wool. Bronze wool wouldn't cause galvanic corrosion when used on stainless steel either. I stand by what I said above.

I also agree that Scotchbrite pads are probably a better choice all the way around, however.

Another vote for Kool Stop Salmon pads, in addition to proper adjustment of your brakes. Shimano pads suck, really. They brake poorly when wet and squeal like a banshee. They also shed nasty black powder that get your brakes and rims dirty.