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Cannot get the rear derailleur off - stripped the mounting screw head

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Cannot get the rear derailleur off - stripped the mounting screw head

Old 04-11-15, 05:42 PM
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Cannot get the rear derailleur off - stripped the mounting screw head

I was trying to take the rear derailleur off to clean it. I have not taken it off this bike before, so it's factory installed. I could not turn the screw that holds the derailleur on the hanger, and ended up stripping the head of the screw (i.e. a 5mm allen key rotates freely in it). It's a Sora 3500 9-speed derailleur on a Specialized AWOL, in case that matters.

What are my options at this point? The derailleur is only 6 months old, so replacing it and the hanger seems wasteful. I'd like to extract the messed up screw somehow and replace it.

p.s. What are my options for replacing the derailleur, other than a Sora 9 speed?


Last edited by agenkin; 04-11-15 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 04-11-15, 05:47 PM
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You might be able to grab the "head" with vise-grips. Or try forcing a 6mm Allen in and see if it turns.
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Old 04-11-15, 06:13 PM
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I'd start with a jam fit Torx diver. Use a grinder to make the end flat and square, then with the hanger supported, hammer it ino the hex so it cuts it's own way. If it works, you an probably reuse the bolt. If not, drill it down, or through with a 5-6mm or do drill, and use an easy out to remove it.

Last ditch plan, drill it through with a 10mm or so drill, which will cut it apart a the hanger. Sadly this will mean the loss of the hanger, but if the easy out didn't remove it, the bolt is seized, and threads shot anyway.
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Old 04-11-15, 07:18 PM
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By the grime/rust on the der I suspect that the mounting bolt/pivot has frozen in place. Can the der freely pivot on this bolt? I just did an upper pivot bolt R&R and found a lot of salt induced corrosion on it. So much so that the spring had also frozen into it's tang hole in the upper knuckle (that's the upper part of the der body). Andy.
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Old 04-11-15, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
Can the der freely pivot on this bolt?
It pivots, but far from freely, takes quite a bit of effort to push it.
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Old 04-11-15, 08:03 PM
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One note. Regardless of lack of care, 6 months is early for these kinds of problems. That is unless you were riding in salt/wet conditions. The screw should have been oiled or greased when attached, and the upper body is packed in grease which should have prevented any corrosion.

So, I'm wondering what this was subjected to which would account for this issue so soon. Unless you identify that, or at least have a theory, and make changes, there's no reason to believe that the next one will fare better.
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Old 04-11-15, 09:00 PM
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Looks like it has a replaceable hanger. If you can't get it off any other way, remove the hanger with the derailleur attached and install a new derailleur and hanger.
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Old 04-11-15, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
unless you were riding in salt/wet conditions
I rode it pretty much every day during the winter, so yes to salt/wet.

I also had a hard time removing the bottom bracket cups (it was the FSA external bearing BB), had to use some enormous force to move the bearing cups. I was blaming the factory for over-torquing the cups, but maybe salt is to blame.
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Old 04-11-15, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
remove the hanger with the derailleur attached and install a new derailleur and hanger.
Yeah, I know I have that option, but it's on the expensive side.

I hope I can free the derailleur, but if it turns out I have to replace it, can I replace the 9-speed Sora RD with a 10-speed 5700 or (still keeping the 9-speed cassette and shifter), or will it not work? Can I use a MTB 9-speed RD with the road (Sora) STI shifter?
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Old 04-11-15, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by agenkin
I rode it pretty much every day during the winter, so yes to salt/wet.

I also had a hard time removing the bottom bracket cups (it was the FSA external bearing BB), had to use some enormous force to move the bearing cups. I was blaming the factory for over-torquing the cups, but maybe salt is to blame.
Everyday this winter in Ontario, yes, I'd suspect salt damage also. I'd pull EVERYTHING apart, clean and lube. Salt is especially harmful to aluminum, so I suspect that's the RDs problem. If you soak the bolt with PB blaster or another penetrating oil and let it rest a day or two, there's a chance you can free it with the hanger intact.

Otherwise, use a 10mm or 3/8" drill through the pivot bolt which will split it at the base. This will salvage RD intact, and you might find a pivot bolt in a mechanic's scavenge box, from a crash damaged RD, or maybe through the forum.

This Fall, winterize your bike with marine grade grease throughout, so there's no place for alt water to enter, and once a week or so, bring out a bucket of hot water and give it a rinse.
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Old 04-12-15, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
By the grime/rust on the der I suspect that the mounting bolt/pivot has frozen in place. Can the der freely pivot on this bolt? I just did an upper pivot bolt R&R and found a lot of salt induced corrosion on it. So much so that the spring had also frozen into it's tang hole in the upper knuckle (that's the upper part of the der body). Andy.
A look at what presumably are stainless steel spokes would give a clue as to how this bike is kept clean, or not.
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Old 04-12-15, 06:55 AM
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You might also be able to cut a slot in the bolt with a Dremel or similar and a narrow abrasive disc, and get it out with a large flat-blade screwdriver.

To help resist corrosion in the future, especially on dissimilar metal joints (bottom brackets, pedals and the like) I recommend TefGel: TEF-GEL - Ultra safety systems - Home page It is specifically designed for such service. It's costly but a little goes a long way.
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Old 04-12-15, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Rowan
A look at what presumably are stainless steel spokes would give a clue as to how this bike is kept clean, or not.
These are black painted SS spokes.
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Old 04-12-15, 07:37 AM
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Toronto? How far from the nearest Princess Auto store? I picked up a set of these some time ago in anticipation of the day they would come in handy. Finally got the chance to try them out with totally stripped out sockets. Works fantastic.
9 pc Metric Extractor End Hex Key Set | Princess Auto
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Old 04-12-15, 07:47 AM
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And the fun is just beginning. Replacing that bolt is easy - if you have 3 hands. Unfortunately, you only have room to fit 1 hand.
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Old 04-12-15, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
And the fun is just beginning. Replacing that bolt is easy - if you have 3 hands. Unfortunately, you only have room to fit 1 hand.
I don't understand what you wrote, sorry. Are you saying it's hard to replace the bolt, even if I manage to get it out?
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Old 04-12-15, 10:55 PM
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Update - I got the hanger with the derailleur off the frame today. The seized bolt is not seized in the hanger! It rotates freely in the hanger, in fact that is how the RD manages to pivot. But the bolt does not rotate inside the barrel, through which it passes (and which must contain a spring). On my other two bikes this bolt does rotate inside the barrel.

The question I have is - can this bolt even be replaced? I looked it up in the Shimano docs, and they list part number Y5Y498010 - B-axle assembly. Has anyone replaced this B-axle assembly and is it worth it?

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Old 04-13-15, 06:54 AM
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The bolt can be removed, cleaned off (and the knuckle's bore), lubed and reinstalled. I did this only a couple of weeks ago on a repair. Not too hard to do. I use a 5mm allen wrench held in a vice as a third hand, the bolt head is placed on the wrench and the threaded end is then facing up. Just keep track of the orientation of each of the parts that come off as well as the amount and direction of the spring's wind up. I use fine emery/sand cloth/paper. Andy.
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Old 04-13-15, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
I did this only a couple of weeks ago on a repair.
Thanks Andy, for the info. Since you have an idea of what's inside the knuckle, do could you explain what the bolt can be seized against? Is it threaded into anything inside the knuckle? Because, as I wrote before, it is not seized in the derailleur hanger thread.

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Old 04-13-15, 10:34 AM
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So you are saying the hanger can be removed from the bolt threads? but the bolt itself does not rotate inside the RD knuckle? From the pdf
if the hanger is removed there should be a U clip that retains the bolt in the RD knuckle. Pop the U clip off and the bolt assembly should be
removable from the knuckle. Shimano is not very forth coming with repair parts not regarded as things that wear out like cables, chains
however so your best bet will be a new RD. You asked earlier about using a 5700, and that would work fine. The RD doesn't really care
if the cassette/chain is 8-9-10 spd.

From another POV, you might consider finding a junker bike for winter use, one you can comfortably discard after 1-2 seasons. This
approach has been suggested by a number of Canadians who ride all winter on salted roads. The other option is fanatical maintenance,
washing the salt off and regular relubing down the the constituent parts, every threaded junction and ball bearing.

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Old 04-13-15, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by sch
So you are saying the hanger can be removed from the bolt threads?
No, I cannot remove the bolt. The bolt moves in the derailleur hanger, but because the derailleur cannot make a full revolution around the hanger, it cannot be removed unless the screw is free to move in the knuckle. So I have no access to the U clip because it's between the knuckle and the hanger.

Originally Posted by sch
RD doesn't really care if the cassette/chain is 8-9-10 spd
From the little I understand, cable pull ratio is what may prevent other RDs from working. I did some additional research, and it looks like 8-10 speed road Shimano derailleurs would work, but 11-speed would not. And neither would any MTB derailleurs, even 9-speed. But I could be wrong.
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Old 04-13-15, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by agenkin
No, I cannot remove the bolt. The bolt moves in the derailleur hanger, but because the derailleur cannot make a full revolution around the hanger, it cannot be removed unless the screw is free to move in the knuckle. So I have no access to the U clip because it's between the knuckle and the hanger.....
So it sounds like the bolt and hanger threads are stripped (either or both). You might try bracing the hanger and pushing down on the bolt as you turn it and maybe it'll catch a thread and start unscrewing. Though if it's frozen to the body, you still might not get it off.

So, consider carefully sawing through the hanger as far as possible without touching the RD body, then supporting the hanger and trying to punch the bolt and derailleur out. (or the reverse, support the RD and break the sawed hanger off). Once you do that, you can remove the C-clip and try to punch the bolt free of the body.

Or, see if you can pass a hacksaw blade between the body and hanger and saw through the bolt. However, if you own a 3/8" power drill, drilling through the bolt until it separates at the C-clip groove (smaller than 3/8") is the fastest way.

So, it's a two step process, free the RD from the hanger, then see if you can free the bolt and salvage the RD.
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Old 04-13-15, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
So it sounds like the bolt and hanger threads are stripped (either or both).
I don't think so. The problem is that the bolt is not rotating inside the knuckle - something is holding it pretty strong. When I pivot the RD on the hanger, I can see that the bolt rotates and moves in and out of the hanger (by a fraction of a mm), which means that it is following the thread.
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Old 04-13-15, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by agenkin
I don't think so. The problem is that the bolt is not rotating inside the knuckle - something is holding it pretty strong. When I pivot the RD on the hanger, I can see that the bolt rotates and moves in and out of the hanger (by a fraction of a mm), which means that it is following the thread.
OK, so brace up the body by some point, and tap the bolt back and forth (in and out) and see if you can get it to break loose from the body. Once it's free, you can turn it out of the hanger, and remove it from the RD.

Or if it simply won't break free that way, and you're willing to call it toast, (hoping to find a replacement) drill it out as I described. Once the bolt is out, an easy out or punch should be able to free the remainder from the body, and the free-turning stud will be easy to unscrew from the hanger.

You've noodled with this, and seem to be fairly sure the bolt is bound to the body. In any case, the hex in the bolt is shot, so IMO it's time to fish or cut bait.
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Old 04-13-15, 09:10 PM
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The bolt OD is likely frozen to the knuckle's ID. That's a lot of surface area for a 5mm allen wrench to crack loose. The description to how to remove the bolt is good, however with it being frozen in the knuckle it might not come out easily or at all. So now the choice is to save the hanger or the der.

I'd move on with new both then go back and play with the old stuff to educate my self. BTW Shimano road 9 speed has the same cable pull ratio as mountain 9 speed. Having said that running a mountain 9 speed der with a road 9 speed STI lever isn't always as slick shifting as the road der would be. Andy.
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