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Reusing spokes
I'm going to try rebuilding my front wheel with a new hub; I watched a how-to video and it doesn't look too hard.
I've run into mixed opinions on spokes though -- is it reasonably safe to use the old ones, or should I replace them? |
I've reused spokes with good luck. i have also broken old spokes. its your call. if you think they are still in great shape, maybe use them.
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As with most wheel questions, Jobst Brandt has addressed this: Reusing Spokes by Jobst Brandt.
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One problem is the threads will likely be corroded to some extent and you can't get a good "feel" of the tension.
I'd recommend you get a metal bristle brush and clean the spoke threads and use new, lubricated nipples. That will help considerably. I've salvaged wheels for CL flippers, using used spokes, rims & hubs. It's kind of a pain and takes a lot more effort to get even tensions etc. but if you have more time than money, go for it. I gave up trying used nipples though. |
Originally Posted by El Cid
(Post 17714382)
I'm going to try rebuilding my front wheel with a new hub; I watched a how-to video and it doesn't look too hard.
I've run into mixed opinions on spokes though -- is it reasonably safe to use the old ones, or should I replace them? |
Originally Posted by El Cid
(Post 17714382)
I'm going to try rebuilding my front wheel with a new hub;
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Originally Posted by El Cid
(Post 17714382)
I'm going to try rebuilding my front wheel with a new hub; I watched a how-to video and it doesn't look too hard.
I've run into mixed opinions on spokes though -- is it reasonably safe to use the old ones, or should I replace them? It's more a matter of ease-of-build, and for pro builders, the ability to vouch for their product that prevents a more widespread reuse of spokes. |
I suspect some of the always use new spokes harks back to the '70s-80s when a box of 100 chrome plate or stainless spokes could be had for $10-12
and if you went with unplated straight gauge perhaps $7 or so per hundred (remember Union spokes from Connecticut?). Now spokes are sold per wheel at 10-15x the costs of yesteryear. Of course a full Campy bike then was $250-500 depending on which Italian frame maker was selected so maybe the cost is proportionate.... (which I doubt). |
In the last 15 years I've ridden about 60K miles and gone through a dozen wheels. I haven't bought a new spoke. I've broken 1 spoke in that time. I use cheap plated spokes. I even use them when the plating is coming off and I have to take care not to stick myself with the shards.
Considering the time it takes me to build a wheel (I'm an amateur without a truing stand, only a spoke wrench and a jury-rigged dish tool.) it's not a significant economy. Price spokes at DAN'S COMP |
As long as they are not kinked they will last forever in a properly built wheel. Have some spare nipples on hand in case you bugger some up taking the wheel apart.
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I've had a pile of grab-bag spokes that I had previously removed from wheels. Different lengths, different diameters... I built a wheel using them quite a while ago. What a mess that was :mad: Never again.
If the spokes were relatively new, and STAINLESS, and fit the new rim, then I'd probably re-use them if it was just unbuilding one wheel and building a new one. I would not bother reusing galvanized spokes. It would also depend on whether you're wishing to use something like double butted spokes, and what the originals are. I'm now breaking spokes on my front wheel of unknown age and history (36h, straight generic spokes). Now broke 3 outbound spokes (15 left to go). It appears as if the heads are not well seated. Anyway, I'd be more reluctant to reuse generic spokes than name-brand spokes (DT, etc). |
Originally Posted by CliffordK
(Post 17716264)
I've had a pile of grab-bag spokes that I had previously removed from wheels. Different lengths, different diameters... I built a wheel using them quite a while ago. What a mess that was :mad: Never again.
If the spokes were relatively new, and STAINLESS, and fit the new rim, then I'd probably re-use them if it was just unbuilding one wheel and building a new one. I would not bother reusing galvanized spokes. It would also depend on whether you're wishing to use something like double butted spokes, and what the originals are. I'm now breaking spokes on my front wheel of unknown age and history (36h, straight generic spokes). Now broke 3 outbound spokes (15 left to go). It appears as if the heads are not well seated. Anyway, I'd be more reluctant to reuse generic spokes than name-brand spokes (DT, etc). For those keeping score, I have a Surly Krampus with 50mm Rabbit Hole rims. I've decided to replace the SRAM hub with a Shutter Precision PD-8. Since I've never done this, I looked at specs for my wheel and hub. The Surly website says that my rim is compatible with 32 hole hubs. The SRAM hub has a QR...something or other, and a 100mm o.l.d. I don't even know what those numbers mean, but they appear to be the same on both hubs. So the spokes are going to come out of the wheel and then go back in. Well, ideally. If I mess it all up I might end up back at the bike shop anyway. |
Any "name brand" spokes will be stamped with the trademark on the heads.
The flange spacing and diameter (hole circle) are important for building the wheel. Even the hole size may make a slight difference, at least it is included in the spoke calcs. OLD is important for the hub to fit into your dropouts. 100mm is the most common for front wheels, although you may encouter some variability with MTBs, fat bikes, tandems, or certain older bikes. |
Originally Posted by El Cid
(Post 17716602)
I never even thought to look at the quality and material of my old spokes. If they turn out to be generic, low-grade crap, then I'll replace them.
For those keeping score, I have a Surly Krampus with 50mm Rabbit Hole rims. I've decided to replace the SRAM hub with a Shutter Precision PD-8. Since I've never done this, I looked at specs for my wheel and hub. The Surly website says that my rim is compatible with 32 hole hubs. The SRAM hub has a QR...something or other, and a 100mm o.l.d. I don't even know what those numbers mean, but they appear to be the same on both hubs. So the spokes are going to come out of the wheel and then go back in. Well, ideally. If I mess it all up I might end up back at the bike shop anyway. Does it have the same spoke hole diameter? 52 or 58mm diameter???? |
Originally Posted by El Cid
(Post 17716602)
I never even thought to look at the quality and material of my old spokes. If they turn out to be generic, low-grade crap, then I'll replace them.
For those keeping score, I have a Surly Krampus with 50mm Rabbit Hole rims. I've decided to replace the SRAM hub with a Shutter Precision PD-8. Since I've never done this, I looked at specs for my wheel and hub. The Surly website says that my rim is compatible with 32 hole hubs. The SRAM hub has a QR...something or other, and a 100mm o.l.d. I don't even know what those numbers mean, but they appear to be the same on both hubs. So the spokes are going to come out of the wheel and then go back in. Well, ideally. If I mess it all up I might end up back at the bike shop anyway. In short, you probably need new spokes, but check it out to make sure. |
Originally Posted by El Cid
(Post 17716602)
.. ... I don't even know what those numbers mean...
Originally Posted by El Cid
(Post 17716602)
.. ..The Surly website says that my rim is compatible with 32 hole hubs..
Originally Posted by El Cid
(Post 17716602)
..The SRAM hub has a QR......
Originally Posted by El Cid
(Post 17716602)
..and a 100mm o.l.d. .....
Originally Posted by El Cid
(Post 17716602)
..they appear to be the same on both hubs. .....
According to here:Spoke Calculation Info | Spews | The Information Hole | Surly Bikes your current front hub has a 58 mm flange diameter on both sides. This MIGHT be misleading. It's listed under "spoke calculation info", but the relevant fact would be the hub's spoke hole circle diameter. Maybe Surly are calling spoke hole circle diameter for flange diameter, I can't tell from here. What's obvious is that Sp-Dynamo doesn't, they list something they call "spoke P.C.D." AND flange diameter. And comparing the two, it's quite obvious which is which. Either way, the SP has one side 52 and the other 58 mm, so even if Surly's posted "flange diameter" is their spoke circle diameter, you still won't be able to reuse half your spokes. Maybe if you do different number of crosses. If your current is 58 mm@3X, you might have enough spoke to do 52mm@2X. Then there is center-to-flange. SP use a symmetric 25 mm while Surly use a lopsided 22.5 and 32 mm. This isn't as important as the 52/58 mm though. |
Plug the measurements of your current hub and rim into a spoke calculator. Then plug in the measurements of the new hub and rim. See if the required spoke length is close, within 2 mm. Try changing number of crosses on the new hub, like 3x to 2x. If you can find a match, disassemble the front wheel, sorting the spokes by head in versus head out. Rebuild wheel, keeping head in spokes that way and head out spokes that way. Otherwise, buy new spokes and rebuild. The sorting is not critical but is a nice thing to do.
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Originally Posted by sch
(Post 17714965)
I suspect some of the always use new spokes harks back to the '70s-80s when a box of 100 chrome plate or stainless spokes could be had for $10-12
and if you went with unplated straight gauge perhaps $7 or so per hundred (remember Union spokes from Connecticut?). Now spokes are sold per wheel at 10-15x the costs of yesteryear. Of course a full Campy bike then was $250-500 depending on which Italian frame maker was selected so maybe the cost is proportionate.... (which I doubt). DT double butted competition spokes can be purchased for around half a buck each and unless the old wheel had either DT or Sapim spokes AND the new hub has the same dimensions AND few had broken, I'd replace the spokes. When spokes start to break, like the bad apple in a barrel, others are affected. Some spokes get over tensioned and then others are not in tension at all. OP....given how little you know about wheels, spokes, hubs, flanges, etc., do yourself a favor....get the wheels built professionally with new spokes and safe (sic) yourself |
Originally Posted by sch
(Post 17714965)
I suspect some of the always use new spokes harks back to the '70s-80s when a box of 100 chrome plate or stainless spokes could be had for $10-12 and if you went with unplated straight gauge perhaps $7 or so per hundred
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I would not hesitate to reuse old spokes, and a wheel rebuild will be easier if you tape the new rim to the old rim and swap them over. Only thing I'd replace is nipples: if original was aluminum, I would switch to brass, but only because of local conditions -- seacoast NH/ME.
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Originally Posted by RR3
(Post 17717392)
OP....given how little you know about wheels, spokes, hubs, flanges, etc., do yourself a favor....get the wheels built professionally with new spokes and safe (sic) yourself
I think I'll be more satisfied with the job after taking the time to learn how to do it properly. And I've become less and less satisfied with my bike shop over time. |
Originally Posted by dabac
(Post 17717347)
Means your rims have 32 spoke nipple holes.
QR AKA q/r is short for quick-release, as opposed to a nutted axle. The axle is short, not protruding through the dropouts and hollow to take a skewer with an acorn nut at one end and a lever at the other. O.L.D. = Over-Locknut-Distance. this is how wide your fork needs to be between the inside faces of the dropouts/fork ends. Not all of them. According to here:Spoke Calculation Info | Spews | The Information Hole | Surly Bikes your current front hub has a 58 mm flange diameter on both sides. This MIGHT be misleading. It's listed under "spoke calculation info", but the relevant fact would be the hub's spoke hole circle diameter. Maybe Surly are calling spoke hole circle diameter for flange diameter, I can't tell from here. What's obvious is that Sp-Dynamo doesn't, they list something they call "spoke P.C.D." AND flange diameter. And comparing the two, it's quite obvious which is which. Either way, the SP has one side 52 and the other 58 mm, so even if Surly's posted "flange diameter" is their spoke circle diameter, you still won't be able to reuse half your spokes. Maybe if you do different number of crosses. If your current is 58 mm@3X, you might have enough spoke to do 52mm@2X. Then there is center-to-flange. SP use a symmetric 25 mm while Surly use a lopsided 22.5 and 32 mm. This isn't as important as the 52/58 mm though. |
Originally Posted by El Cid
(Post 17718390)
That's what I've always done; take my bike in and let the professionals do it. This hub replacement will be the first work I've done on my own bike, but not the last.
I think I'll be more satisfied with the job after taking the time to learn how to do it properly. And I've become less and less satisfied with my bike shop over time. |
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