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Chain rattling on lower Jockey wheel on bigger cogs.

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Chain rattling on lower Jockey wheel on bigger cogs.

Old 05-16-15, 08:52 PM
  #1  
BikingGrad80
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Chain rattling on lower Jockey wheel on bigger cogs.

Hi all

I am putting my rebuilt powder coated bike back together (upgraded to 10 speed) and am running into an issue with the rear derailleur. It shifts nicely and I got it tuned but I can't get it to stop rattling on the rear jockey wheel on the big ring and to top 3-4 cogs. I know big big is cross chaining and I expect problems there but I should be able to use the second and third largest cogs. My other bike with a near identical setup only a 6700 RD is fine on all cogs though rubs the FD when cross chaining. I don't think the hanger is bent is is steel, part of the frame, and very thick and looks fine. I am wondering if getting a different pulley/jockey wheel (6700) would help. What do you think?

Details
Forte/Microshift 10 speed RD
5700 12-17 cassette
6701 chain.
FSA compact 50/34 crank.
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Old 05-16-15, 09:57 PM
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This issue is most commonly caused by a bent or misaligned hanger. Accepting the premise that 99% of bent hangers are bent inward, that would put the lower end of the RD cage inboard of the upper and corresponding cassette sprocket. So as you move the RD inward, the lower idler is more inboard and mis-aligned from the outer sprocket than normal, and you run into this problem.

Check my theory as follows.

Shift to a gear where the RD cage is most vertical. Have a friend hold a broomstick or other straightedge vertical against the rear wheel. Squat behind the bike and eyeball the RD cage vs the Broomstick. They should be parallel, and I'm betting that you'll find the lower pulley closer. The fix is obvious, straighten the hanger.

Of course the hanger and RD may be correctly, but check the obvious theory first.
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Old 05-16-15, 10:05 PM
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Frankly, I don't see how a new derailleur pulley can change things.

Before buying parts, check your chain line and derailleur hanger alignment, in that order. The powder coating may have added a millimeter or two of width to the shell and pushed the chainrings out relative to the cassette. You want a centerline that bisects the gap between the front rings and the 4th and 5th cogs. After that checks out, look at the hanger. It might have a twist to the inside in front that pushes the arm out of the chain line when the chain pulls it forward.
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Old 05-17-15, 05:56 AM
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Is your unidirectional chain installed correctly? If not, I can attest that all manner of weird issues may occur.
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Old 05-17-15, 06:44 AM
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B Screw set properly?
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Old 05-17-15, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
B Screw set properly?
This is easy to check but you need to check it on all of your cogs/chainring combinations. Depending upon the RD pantograph angle and the sizes of cogs the correct setting at the large cog may not give sufficient clearance at the small cog end. So run through all of your gear combinations to confirm the adjustment.

But always check the hanger alignment first.
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Old 05-17-15, 11:59 AM
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B screw is all the way out and it has no trouble clearing the cogs. Yep I installed the 6701 chain with the printing outwards and the connecting pin on the leading rivot. I'll take it to Performance and have them look it over (It's their groupo) and allign if necessary.
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Old 05-17-15, 12:06 PM
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B screw all the way in?
Shorten chain.
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Old 05-17-15, 12:15 PM
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The B srew is almost completely out. It didn't seem to need be messed with as it is well clear of the cogs even then. I am pretty sure the chain length is correct as I compared it to my carbon bike which has near identical geometry and gearing and even chiain and the angle of the derailleur and chain on small small and big big is identical and that thing is very smooth (full 6700). It is about one rivot shy of bottoming out the RD spring on small small and pretty tense on big big though there is still a pronounced chain S curve.

I had a jerk of a time sizing the chain. I tried the not threaded through the derailleur and placed on big big then add two rivots method and ended up 4 rivots to short. Next I played arround with it through the derailleurs joining it with a piece of coat hanger and finally got it perfect copying my other bike and going one rivot past total slackness on the RD spring on small small.
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Old 05-17-15, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BikingGrad80 View Post
The B srew is almost completely out. It didn't seem to need be messed with as it is well clear of the cogs even then. I am pretty sure the chain length is correct as I compared it to my carbon bike which has near identical geometry and gearing and even chiain and the angle of the derailleur and chain on small small and big big is identical and that thing is very smooth (full 6700). It is about one rivot shy of bottoming out the RD spring on small small and pretty tense on big big though there is still a pronounced chain S curve.

I had a jerk of a time sizing the chain. I tried the not threaded through the derailleur and placed on big big then add two rivots method and ended up 4 rivots to short. Next I played arround with it through the derailleurs joining it with a piece of coat hanger and finally got it perfect copying my other bike and going one rivot past total slackness on the RD spring on small small.
Then you did something wrong.
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Old 05-17-15, 03:13 PM
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Well I just counted the chain length on both my bikes. They both ended up the exact same size 106 rivots though my other bike has an 11-28 casette and this one a 12-27. I'll see what performance says and if they can't make it work I'll exchange it for a 5700 or 6700 RD. So far as best as I can see visualy the hanger looks fine but it may be slightly off. What is also weird is it runs fine on 34-27 and on all gears on the small ring. If it was out of allignment souldn't it be Fed up on the big cogs on both rings.

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Old 05-18-15, 11:52 AM
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So just got back from Performance. I had them align the hanger with the Park tool it made no difference. They messed with the B screw and tension and that didn't help. They suggested something was with my chain line and I mess with the BB spacing which made no sense. It is an FSA outboard crank and the width is set by the crank not the BB. I had the shell faced and chased earlier and it is the same crank I have been using for years So I finally decided to return the RD.

I can either put my old 9 speed RD back on which worked great with the same crank and 9 speed drive train. It is an Ultegra 6500 RD. It should work fine with 10 speed right? I think this is my best bet as I know that RD works well with my crank and chain line. If anything the 10 speed should have a better chain-line because of the 1mm spacer between the end of the FW and largest cog.

Or I can order a 5700 or 6700 or 6600 RD.

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Old 05-18-15, 01:33 PM
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Putting the old RD back on would be a good way to rule that component out (perhaps it had a little gunk in the pulley wheels that kept them from making more noise? ), but it's important to remember that cross-chaining isn't a binary, digital thing. As you work your way from the middle of the cassette inward on the big ring, the chain angle keeps increasing, and I would expect the noise to increase a little for each step.
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Old 05-18-15, 05:23 PM
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I put the 6500 RD on and it works and shifts fine. No rattle. It looks to be a little shorter of a cage though I remember after the 6600 Shimano and the other manufacturers went on a redesign to increase the largest cog their road RD's could deal with and thus probably lengthened the RD cages.
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