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Vintage mixte overhaul- the expensive way!

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Vintage mixte overhaul- the expensive way!

Old 05-23-15, 11:34 AM
  #1  
cookcrankcook
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Vintage mixte overhaul- the expensive way!

Hello everyone. My better half has a vintage Peugeot mixte that has been sitting in our garage for assorted reasons. I have been meaning to teach myself some bike knowledge, and what better way than to dive headfirst into a project way above my skill level? My bike repair experience pretty much consists of riding and cleaning a downhill bike. Any maintenance issues I had I thought were to complicated to learn and immediately took my bike to a shop (duh, whoops). The things she wants done to the bike are pretty serious, and I'm crazy for doing them from what I can gather from other posts of people wanting similar things.

The bike:



What she wants done:

drop bars changed to Velo tourist handlebars
friction shifting replaced with indexed shifting
cantilever brakes replaces with side-pull breaks

She plans on adding some accessories to frame eventually too:

fenders
kickstand
front basket
rear basket

She does not care about maintaining the vintage feel of the bicycle. The important elements of the bike to her are the mixte frame and details like:





I have these parts that I would like to either use in the rebuild:













Can I use any of these parts on this bike? What parts will I need to buy instead to make this project happen?

So to shortcut everyone's 1st response: although I am trying to keep this project as cheap as possible, I am want to do this project to further (or create) some bike shop skills and end up with a nice bike to surprise my lady with.

And finally, here are some pictures of the bike and its components:

PICTURES PART 1







Can what I want be done? What parts do I still need to buy to make this happen?
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Last edited by cookcrankcook; 05-23-15 at 11:35 AM. Reason: add more info
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Old 05-23-15, 11:46 AM
  #2  
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For starters, these brakes won't work unless you braze on the required bosses:



You'd be better off to buy some Tektro dual-pivot calipers instead.
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Old 05-23-15, 11:48 AM
  #3  
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Pictures of the bike part 2



























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Old 05-23-15, 11:52 AM
  #4  
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What wrong with keeping the bike as is ? I see nothing in your photos saying anything need replacing . Just clean and lube the bike and have her ride it . The parts you do show will not work with this bike but maybe the freewheel .
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Old 05-23-15, 11:52 AM
  #5  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
For starters, these brakes won't work unless you braze on the required bosses:
You'd be better off to buy some Tektro dual-pivot calipers instead.
Will those work with the brifters I have?
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Old 05-23-15, 12:12 PM
  #6  
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Originally Posted by bikeman715 View Post
What wrong with keeping the bike as is ? I see nothing in your photos saying anything need replacing . Just clean and lube the bike and have her ride it . The parts you do show will not work with this bike but maybe the freewheel .
The problems with the bike are, in order of importance:

1. Aesthetics of the drop bars. She does not like the way they look.
2. Location of the shifters. It is uncomfortable for her to use stem mounted shifters.
3. She wants indexed shifting
4. The brakes are ok, but I already know how to maintain and adjust v-brakes, and as far as I know if I am already replacing the shifters, handlebars, and brake levers, so won't I have to replace them anyway?
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Old 05-23-15, 12:27 PM
  #7  
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Originally Posted by cookcrankcook View Post
. . . cantilever brakes replaces with side-pull breaks [whatever that means] . . .
Originally Posted by cookcrankcook View Post
. . . 4. The brakes are ok, but I already know how to maintain and adjust v-brakes . . .
But the bike has center-pulls and you picture cantilevers as proposed replacements -- four for four -- you win the Superfecta.
Friendly advice: pick a lane.
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Old 05-23-15, 12:43 PM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by cookcrankcook View Post
The problems with the bike are, in order of importance:

1. Aesthetics of the drop bars. She does not like the way they look.
This is a relatively easy fix, I've done it on all of my bikes, as I can no longer ride a bike with drop bars. One of my bikes has a Velo Orange Tourist, a nice bar that won't break the bank. Another has Origin8 Citi Classic, slightly wider. And I put a mountain bike bar on my wife's road bike after she started to envy my upright bars. But the upright bar will require you to choose new brake levers at the very least.
2. Location of the shifters. It is uncomfortable for her to use stem mounted shifters.
It won't seem quite so bad, once you move to upright bars, but...
3. She wants indexed shifting
Depending on the age of the bike, its rear cogs are probably not compatible with a modern index system, so you might be up against replacing the freewheel along with the shifters. On the other hand, indexed shifting will give you a wider array of options for shifters, including decent trigger shifters that should work fine with upright bars.
4. The brakes are ok, but I already know how to maintain and adjust v-brakes, and as far as I know if I am already replacing the shifters, handlebars, and brake levers, so won't I have to replace them anyway?
You could buy caliper brakes and levers that are compatible with one another. That's what I've done, using Tektro dual pivots as noted above, and Shimano levers that look like they were intended for a hybrid or light duty mountain bike. Switching to v-brakes means brazing the bosses on -- possibly the tripping point where a new Mixte with everything you want already on it becomes preferable.

The experts could chime in here, but a potential issue is that older Peugeot bikes used "French" thread standards that are unlike anything else on the planet, so you might have some issues if you ever want to replace things like the crank or the pedals.

Depending on her riding preferences, terrain, etc., she may be happy with the smaller front cog and no front derailer, which would simplify your upgrade job somewhat.
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Old 05-23-15, 12:44 PM
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Jeez, I ought to stay out of this, but since I have time on my hands...

1. The brakes are fine. Clean them up and put modern Kool- Stop or other decent pads on them.
2. I like VO bars. Make sure you have brake levers that fit them.
3. VO sells some really cheap friction shifters that fit all bars. Let her try those before going whole hog on something else. It may have been the placement of the original levers that put her off friction in the first place.

And that's all I've got to say about that.
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Old 05-23-15, 01:11 PM
  #10  
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From your photos it looks to me like it may have a 5 speed freewheel. The replacement you have is a 7 speed. You'll need to determine if the rear axle is long enough to go from 5 to 7 (I'm guessing it isn't - 120mm vs. 126mm). I don't think there is such a thing as 5 speed indexed shifters - it wasn't invented until everything had already switched over to 6 speed. But (if I'm right on this, I'm going on very long ago memories) maybe 6 speed indexed is the same spacing as 5 speed and you could just block out the lowest gear. Don't trust me on that - there are much more knowledgeable people here who will correct me. I don't know if 6 speed indexing is still available - look for used parts, ebay, a bike co-op?
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Old 05-23-15, 01:16 PM
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What she wants done: = yours is not to reason Why, yours is to Do ..


Dweenk may be a walk in at VO , others have to pay shipping .
(some of their imports are wholesaled thru other distributors and available locally for no more, than VO's Retail Prices )

BUT (kiss) guidonnet levers work well
https://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/br-0024.html
convenient like the chicken wing extension levers that Dont Work Well at all (its the front lever /those wings that goes away. )

you Keep the bars , just replace the levers and cable & Housing and get Kool Stop Continental Brake Shoes

maybe put bar end plug mirror/s in the bar end/s ..
She wants Indexed shifting ? I highly Recommend Buying a Sturmey Archer 3 https://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/products/detail/aw

or 5 Speed IGH https://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/products/detail/rx-rf5 In a A New Rear Wheel.

a 3 and 5 speed bar end klick shifter/ or thumb lever is a S-A Option
since this is a Shopping practical Bike, the derailleur upgrade will be expensive and more complicated to operate. .& easily damaged..

1 chain ring in front will allow a chainguard be added ..

Last edited by fietsbob; 05-23-15 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 05-23-15, 08:48 PM
  #12  
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Looks like you have already purchased 7-speed trigger shifters., however the brake levers on those units are V-brake levers and are not compatible with centerpull or sidepull caliper brakes. They would not be safe to use. The mixte does not have the necessary braze-on posts for V-brakes, anyway. You would be better off getting 7-speed thumb shifters and using separate brake levers. Make sure the levers are compatible with centerpull or sidepull caliper brakes.

If you want 7-speed indexed shifting, you will need a new rear wheel with 126mm spacing between the locknuts. Your 5-speed setup is probably 120mm. That also means you will have to cold set the rear of the bike so the dropouts are spaced at 126mm. You will also need a SIS 7-speed index compatible rear derailleur, one that has a claw mount. Your current derailleur has a claw mount, your bike does not have an integral derailleur hanger.

Last edited by Paramount1973; 05-23-15 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 05-23-15, 09:22 PM
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aside from the issue of whether those parts will work, just look at delivering on her request as "love insurance". As long as nothing compromises safety of course. She will love the bike and that is worth a lot.
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Old 05-24-15, 06:39 AM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
But the bike has center-pulls and you picture cantilevers as proposed replacements -- four for four -- you win the Superfecta.
Friendly advice: pick a lane.
And you should read more carefully. I said that those were the extra parts that I have to work with, not that I was going to use them all on the bike. If I cannot use those parts on the bike, then I would like to use parts with a similar price point so I can sell the brakes I do have and get proper brakes with the money.
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Old 05-24-15, 08:50 AM
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I would use your existing parts. But you'll need some more stuff to do so:

Rear gearing- You'll need a new longer axle and another 5 mm spacer to get more room at the back for the extra gears. You'll need a derailleur hanger claw- the old simplex one won't fit the Acera derailleur. You'll need non-compressible gear housing so the indexing works reliably. If you're anal about a 3 mm offset to the left on the rear wheel, you'll need to "dish" the wheel back to center. You'll need to either spread the rear triangle to fit the extra axle width in, or "cold set" it (spread it permanently by bending it).

Brakes- I'd just buy new pads for the existing centerpulls. They'll work fine. Sell the Tektro Canti units; there's no way to make them fit, and new long-reach sidepulls wouldn't be much of an improvement over the centerpulls. If the levers are made for V-brakes, you can get "travel agents" to convert the pull ratio to the road/canti/centerpull ratio.

Front gearing- You'll likely need a new front derailleur, but I'd try the old one first- after all, there are only two positions, and you can adjust them somewhat with the limit screws and judicious use of cable slack.

As far as "French bike" compatibility- that's mostly the bottom bracket and the headset, which you're not going to touch. You may need a new stem if the new handlebar diameter is different at the clamp point- measure it with a caliper, both the stem diameter where it goes into the steering tube and the handlebar diameter where it clamps in the stem.
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Old 05-24-15, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cycle_maven View Post
\ You'll need a new longer axle and another 5 mm spacer to get more room at the back for the extra gears. You'll need a derailleur hanger claw- the old simplex one won't fit the Acera derailleur. You'll need non-compressible gear housing so the indexing works reliably. If you're anal about a 3 mm offset to the left on the rear wheel, you'll need to "dish" the wheel back to center. You'll need to either spread the rear triangle to fit the extra axle width in, or "cold set" it (spread it permanently by bending it).
Ok, so if I can get a 126 mm axel I won't need a new wheel? I know the bike shop by my house will cold set the frame, but what is a non-compressible gear housing?

You've convinced me to just try new pads. If I get the velo handlebars someone recommended that I get these Guidonnet Brake Levers handle , do I need special brake levers like these over more standard levers?

As for the front gearing, I assume you saw I have that Acera front deraileur as well as the rear? is there a reason that you recommended to keep the old over using the new one (other than logically, you have a point about there only being two positions). Also, if I did leave it, would it be a problem connecting it to shifters on the handlebars?

Thanks for your reply! your response was helpful and easy for me to understand.
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Old 05-24-15, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cookcrankcook View Post
And you should read more carefully. . .
More carefully than you write? Already done -- thanks.
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Old 05-24-15, 02:58 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Paramount1973 View Post
You will also need a SIS 7-speed index compatible rear derailleur, one that has a claw mount. Your current derailleur has a claw mount, your bike does not have an integral derailleur hanger.
I currently have Acera front and rear deraileurs that I took posted pictures of in the beginning of my post. Is there a reason I cannot use them? Also, this is probably a stupid question, but is SIS a line of deraileurs Shimano makes that you are specifically recommending for my project or is SIS a type of deraileur?
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Old 05-24-15, 03:10 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
You could buy caliper brakes and levers that are compatible with one another. That's what I've done, using Tektro dual pivots as noted above, and Shimano levers that look like they were intended for a hybrid or light duty mountain bike. Switching to v-brakes means brazing the bosses on -- possibly the tripping point where a new Mixte with everything you want already on it becomes preferable.
I looked up tektro dual pivots, and I am confused (get ready for a stupid question), on my bike the brakes are pulled by the cable that pulls on two other cables that connect to each 1/2 of the brake, the picture for the tektro dual pivots looks like there is only 1 brake cable that is offset. Is that something that is not a problem if I replace all the cables an levers or is there many types of dual pivot caliper brakes? This looks so different from my setup:

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Old 05-24-15, 04:04 PM
  #20  
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What you have on the bike now is what is call center pull brakes which was common when your bike was new . The dual pivots you looking at will work with your bike . The dual pivots are make from combine technology of your center pulls and side pull brakes . It why you see the cable to the side of calipers .
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Old 05-24-15, 04:58 PM
  #21  
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Not that you need another opinion, but since I have an old Peugeot myself and I'm somewhat familiar with the task you're facing...

For simplicity's sake, let's divide the job into smaller tasks, namely brakes and drivetrain.

BRAKES

Your original brakes are Weinmann centerpull calipers. If you want, you can replace them with sidepull calipers like the Tektro dual-pivots mentioned above, but your original centerpulls are serviceable if you fit them with new brake pads. If you go with new brakes, you'll need to measure the required reach, both front and rear, so you can choose a set of brakes that's sized right for your bike & wheels.

The levers you choose are dependent on what handlebar you go with. Just make sure your brake levers are designed for caliper or cantilever brakes and not linear pull "v brakes". The guidonnet levers mentioned above should work fine, but you may want to check how they follow the curve of your handlebar. (Or pick a handlebar that fits the bend of the levers. Your choice.)

DRIVETRAIN

OK, this is where it gets a little complicated since there are more variables to contend with.

First of all, how far apart are inside faces of the frame's dropouts, where the rear wheel inserts? If it's 126 mm, you have some options. That's the common spacing for 6- and (some) 7-speed freewheels, which you can easily find index-compatible parts for. If the frame's spaced at 120 mm, this could get significantly more complicated and/or expensive since you'll need to replace or re-space/dish your rear wheel to fit more than 5 speeds, which you'd need to do for most index-compatible components.

If your frame is spaced at 126 mm, you may be able to fit a 7-speed freewheel on your existing wheel. It'll almost certainly fit, but you'll want to test-fit it to confirm that the freewheel and chain don't rub on the frame. If you can't get a 7-speed freewheel in there, it's a safe bet you can do a 6-speed freewheel like this Sunrace M2A.

Once you've got your freewheel figured out and know how many speeds you're going to be running, you can look for shifters. There are plenty of indexed shifters available for 6-speed setups or 7 speed setups. Shimano SL-TX30 shifters are inexpensive and come in both flavors:
Shimano SL-TX30, 6 speed
Shimano SL-TX30, 7 speed
(Note that you may want to stick with friction shifting for the front derailleur. It'll increase your shifter and derailleur options without being any more difficult for the rider since friction shifting a double is binary, just like indexed shifting: throw the lever one way for low, the other way for high.)

For your rear derailleur, you can use the Acera derailleur you have on hand, or pretty much any Shimano index-compatible 6/7/8 speed derailleur. The only catch is that you'll need a claw to mount it since your frame doesn't have a built-in derailleur hanger. The Peugeot's stock derailleur claw might not have a stop tab for a Shimano derailleur's b-screw, so to be on the safe side, I'd suggest spending a buck or two to pick up a claw that's definitely compatible, like this Sunrace claw. Or you can buy a derailleur that comes with a claw mount.

For your front derailleur, if you stick with friction shifting, pretty much any front derailleur will work, including the Peugeot's stock Simplex derailleur. The Shimano derailleur you have on hand may not be ideal, being a triple and designed for a maximum 48 tooth chainring.

Originally Posted by cookcrankcook View Post
Also... is SIS a line of deraileurs Shimano makes that you are specifically recommending for my project or is SIS a type of deraileur?
SIS = Shimano Index System. It's a blanket label Shimano uses on their index-compatible derailleurs, shifters, and related components.
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Old 05-24-15, 05:42 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by cookcrankcook View Post
I currently have Acera front and rear deraileurs that I took posted pictures of in the beginning of my post. Is there a reason I cannot use them? Also, this is probably a stupid question, but is SIS a line of deraileurs Shimano makes that you are specifically recommending for my project or is SIS a type of deraileur?
SIS is Shimano Index System. The rear derailleur you have is direct mount and is SIS, so it should shift a 7-speed freewheel but you will need one if these to use it with your mixte.
Various Manufacturers Rear Derailleur Adaptor Claw - Harris Cyclery bicycle shop - West Newton, Massachusetts

Actually, the claw that SkyDog75 linked to in his post should be fine and is less expensive than the Harris Cycle offering.

Last edited by Paramount1973; 05-24-15 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 05-24-15, 05:55 PM
  #23  
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@cookcrankcook, I can't add much to what the others have said. Thinking more about the project, I would probably take a more minimalist approach, maybe tackle it gradually:

1. Like @SkyDog75 suggests, the existing brakes are probably workable, with new pads. So far as I know, there was only one standard of brake levers until V-brakes came along.

2. Following what @noglider posted in the thread on the Fuji bike in the Commuting forum, I'd agree that switching to indexed shifting involves a lot of kit, and it may be that solving the problems of the handlebars and lever placement is enough of an improvement, that friction shifting won't seem like such a bad thing.
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Old 05-25-15, 01:57 PM
  #24  
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Hey, thanks for taking all of the time to write out your response and add the links. I really think I understand this much better.

BRAKES
So whether I replace my current centerpull brakes with sidepull brakes or just get new brake pads I can use caliper/cantilever brake levers.

DRIVETRAIN
For the drivetrain, I will probably have to have the frame spread to 126mm, I already know a bike shop that will do this.

Originally Posted by SkyDog75 View Post
For your front derailleur, if you stick with friction shifting, pretty much any front derailleur will work, including the Peugeot's stock Simplex derailleur.
I think you've convinced me to stick with the simplex front deraileur if possible. If I do this, can I just run the cable from the original simplex deraileur to any new shifters I get for the new handlebars without issue, or do I need to find simplex shifters? Otherwise I would probably just buy matching shimano shifters like the ones you linked.

In summary,
IF I get the bike frame spread to 126mm, then I can use the 7 speed freewheel I have pictured on my rear wheel with the 7 speed acera rear deraileur I have pictured. I can keep the current simplex front deraileur and run both of these to 1 indexed and 1 new friction shifter on the new handlebars. Then either I can service the current brakes and get better brake pads, or replace them with the tektro dual pivots. In either case I can run them to new caliper brake levers.

Is that right? Am I learning?
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Old 05-25-15, 02:23 PM
  #25  
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Chicago, a 3 speed IGH should be fine, they can be bought with the same 120 width as on old 5 speed freewheel bikes ..

I like my middle gear about 57~8" get Drum brake hubs and the Maintenance needs Go way down ..
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