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Are bike repair shops any better than... an enthusiast?

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Are bike repair shops any better than... an enthusiast?

Old 06-06-15, 01:34 PM
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corrado33
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Are bike repair shops any better than... an enthusiast?

I love to work on bikes. They're simple and really easy to fix. Recently I've been trying to fix anybody's bike that I can, and I've realized that I don't know that much. Bike repair isn't something you can simply read about and suddenly be good. You need to recognize specific parts, remember how to fix it, then fix it without breaking anything else. Basically, for a bike tech, experience is key.

So I go into any of my local shops and see kids still in college working on people's bikes. I know they all can't be more experienced than me. (I'm sure SOME of them are.) A lot of times I know the kids personally and know that they're not any better with a wrench than I am. So, is taking your bike to a shop any better than sitting in your garage and figuring it out yourself? What's the turnaround rate for a bike shop mechanic? Is it long enough that they get skilled enough to fix things well? Is there any sort of training that goes into a new hire for a bike mechanic? Do bike shops just put new hires on to assembling bikes and let them figure it out? How is that better than the people putting bikes together at wal-mart?

Heck, I just got back from the shop earlier where I heard one of the mechanics call the customer, tell them they didn't know how to work on their lefty fork, then move on to something else...

Note: I'm not talking about the shops staffed by older men/women who love to work on bikes. They obviously have the experience to fix anything better than you can.

Please don't take this as me being egotistical. I can work on bikes competently, I'm not good or great by any means, but I DO trust my repairs.
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Old 06-06-15, 01:44 PM
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So I get sick and think about visiting a hospital. but all I ever hear is that there are a lot of sick people in them and most of the help are low wage workers. What should I do? Andy.
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Old 06-06-15, 01:59 PM
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A lefty fork (is it still a fork or is it now a chopstick?) Is a proprietary, fairly complicated thing. It would take a few days of training for the college kid to become proficient. It's not just about competence, it's also about economy and efficiency. Being a really good mechanic with a huge amount of knowledge is not necessarily profitable. People become good at what they do often. The kid will be good at things which are common jobs.

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Old 06-06-15, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
I've realized that I don't know that much.
Hobbyists without experience, training or specialized tools mess around to their heart's content on their own hardware for fun.
Paying customers rightly demand safe, competent, efficient professional service for their machines.

Two different worlds, one has professional standards the other does not.

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Old 06-06-15, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
Are bike repair shops any better than... an enthusiast? . . .
That's an easy question to answer, just state which shop and which enthusiast, their actual experience and performance repairing bikes, in detail. Standby for the definitive answer.
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Old 06-06-15, 04:03 PM
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the real difference is can you do it fast as well as accurate?
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Old 06-06-15, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by reptilezs View Post
the real difference is can you do it fast as well as accurate?
This.

I can repair just about anything, but in a time frame that makes a profit - not so much.
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Old 06-06-15, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
So I get sick and think about visiting a hospital. but all I ever hear is that there are a lot of sick people in them and most of the help are low wage workers. What should I do? Andy.
Die?
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Old 06-06-15, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
Hobbyists without experience, training or specialized tools mess around to their heart's content on their own hardware for fun.
Paying customers rightly demand safe, competent, efficient professional service for their machines.

Two different worlds, one has professional standards the other does not.

-Bandera: Ex-Schwinn Factory Certified Mechanic
I disgree. I am not a pro wrench as I do not get paid to do it in a shop. Of the 3 shops in my vicinity I clearly am a better mechanic than 2 of the shops crew. One shop no one can build a wheel and they make claims that not false but not correct for getting a bike riding. A pro just means you get paid for doing the job and many no pros do things just as well or better.

i don't own a music store but they call me to do their major guitar repairs and I do get paid so maybe a pro. I do not do it for a living so what does that mean? Generally shops mechanics have to work fast doing routine easy repairs.
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Old 06-06-15, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
So I get sick and think about visiting a hospital. but all I ever hear is that there are a lot of sick people in them and most of the help are low wage workers. What should I do? Andy.
Apples and oranges my friend. Doctors are trained in years of schooling. A bike shop mechanic is someone who's never seen a lick of schooling for what they're trying to do. (In most cases.)
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Old 06-06-15, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
I disgree..
Do you disagree that paying customers rightly demand safe, competent, efficient professional service for their machines?
If your two local shops are not capable of providing service at a professional level find the one that does or do your own maintenance instead.

A properly equipped, trained and experienced LBS service/assembly staff will produce safe quality work in a timely fashion at reasonable rates.
It's essential for the success of the business and one of many things that separates a quality retail operation from ones that will not succeed.

Some hobbyists do good work on their own equipment, a proper production environment requires a different skill set with professional standards and training rigorously enforced.

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Old 06-06-15, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
Apples and oranges my friend. Doctors are trained in years of schooling. A bike shop mechanic is someone who's never seen a lick of schooling for what they're trying to do. (In most cases.)
So only doctors will care for you when you're in the hospital? And those young mechanics aren't supervised/mentored by the experienced guys? I agree that the motivations and abilities of both medical personal and bike shops have a wide range but the Op did use a pretty wide paint brush. Andy. (Who, BTW, is a doctor's kid and a 40 years long wrench).
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Old 06-06-15, 06:19 PM
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The college kids are very likely working under the supervision of an experienced mechanic (at least they should be).
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Old 06-06-15, 06:43 PM
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Most bike shop mechanics (young and old) I have known have had at least some formal training from a tech school or a certification program.
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Old 06-06-15, 07:04 PM
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So I'm learning more about bike mechanics, great.

But the question still stands. Provided you (the enthusiast) has the time and tools, is it better to take your bike to a shop or fix it yourself in your garage? Arguably it'll be quicker for you to do it yourself. (Since you don't have to drive it to the shop, wait a day or two (or even an hour or two), then go get it.)

Now, I'm not saying repair shops are bad. There are plenty of really busy people who don't have the time (or want/know how) to work on their own bikes.

Oh and about the lefty fork. The REALLY funny thing was that as the mechanic was on the phone, another guy rolled his bike up to the shop with a lefty fork on it. I almost felt bad for the mechanic.

It's gotta be hard to do bike work fast enough and competent enough to turn a profit. But I guess that raises another question. Does the repair shop of a LBS make money? Or are they really just providing a service for the community/people who have bought their bikes? (I'm legitimately curious here.) I don't think it'd be a good business practice to have the service NOT make money, but who knows.
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Old 06-06-15, 07:12 PM
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My shop offered me the job, they don't hire people who aren't already competent. I was offered the job after a conversation about bikes I'd built. Any holes in knowledge are filled in by the owner, who's run the shop for 25 years, or the other part time help, which consists of a professional auto mechanic on weekends and an engineer on weekdays. The collective repair experience is easily >50 years. I'm the youngest guy there, in my 20s, but that doesn't make me un-qualified. I have assembled countless bikes, and repaired more. My ability to do things quickly did improve when I started working there though. Repairs I could do myself but rarely needed to became a daily thing, so I did occasional jobs daily. Tell me how someone who sets up approximately 10 derailers daily isn't better at it than someone who does it once a year on their own bike?
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Old 06-06-15, 07:23 PM
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I don't see how it is different from any other trade. I suppose there aren't formal helper/journeyman/master ratings but probably they same thing prevails.

scott s.
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Old 06-06-15, 07:24 PM
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I have quite a few tools and work on my own bikes and sometimes on friends' bikes. The result is good. But it takes me a long time and I often have to try a repair or adjustment a couple of times before getting it right. I would be fired on my first day as a pro mechanic, maybe my first hour. Pros have training, formal and on the job, all the tools, and they've seen and fixed the issue hundreds of times before. They are fast and efficient and when you get your bike back, it is fixed for sure. Sure, some bike shop mechanics don't live up to that standard, and others only work on newer bikes because that's where the money is. In my city, a bad shop doesn't last long.
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Old 06-06-15, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
Oh and about the lefty fork. The REALLY funny thing was that as the mechanic was on the phone, another guy rolled his bike up to the shop with a lefty fork on it. I almost felt bad for the mechanic.
I wouldn't rate a bike shop on their inability to work on a lefty fork. Cannondale forks require special proprietary tools to service, and unless a shop is an authorized Cannondale dealer, they are unlikely to be so equipped.
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Old 06-06-15, 08:13 PM
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Cannondale/pacific probably wouldn't give training and service manuals to a shop that's not a dealer either. It's also been my experience that really special things like that are serviced by one of the mechanics who received training if they do it at all. Often, working on things like suspension is way more trouble than it's worth unless the shop does a lot of work like that, since it takes a lot of time.
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Old 06-06-15, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
But the question still stands. Provided you (the enthusiast) has the time and tools, is it better to take your bike to a shop or fix it yourself in your garage? Arguably it'll be quicker for you to do it yourself. (Since you don't have to drive it to the shop, wait a day or two (or even an hour or two), then go get it.)
Whether it's better depends primarily on your competence, and preference for DIY or paying someone else to worry about it. If you know what you're doing and have the time to spare, of course you can usually do a better job, because you can afford to take as long as you like.

The problem is, Dunning-Kruger: are you competent enough to know what you don't know? This can be tough even for highly knowledgeable and experienced folks when it comes to the more unusual problems. Bike shops are under pressure to ascertain and solve the exact issue as quickly as possible, and thus the better ones bring their collective experience to bear on tricky snags, seeking to avoid costly mistakes and delays. There are also probably a great many more specialised tools than you're aware of, and if they don't make the difference between being able to do the job and not, they very often make the difference between being able to do it properly and not.
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Old 06-06-15, 09:02 PM
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Service shops can make money if they're run well. Part of that is the classic sales/service battle and how that's balanced. It's tough to show the boss the numbers when some are hidden in the sales support side of things. Another part of being profitable is how the time/quality thing is balanced. I was brought up to do every tune up the same regardless of the bike's quality level. needless to say the results won't be the same but each bike gets the same procedure. Last is that a few more minutes now can save a repeat of the job later or even keep a customer from deciding that you can't do the right job so they don't return for the redo.

Doing too fast turn arounds (and the lack of second eyes checking work or test rides), giving away lots of service (like to the sales side), using terms like "we'll throw it on your bike while you wait" (never saw a bike that could catch the part that was tossed at it) are examples of poorly run shops. Of course there are many more aspects of loosing money that many shops seem to perfect daily. Andy.
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Old 06-06-15, 09:15 PM
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I'm an enthusiast, and have been self sufficient for bike repairs, for most of my life. My repairs tend to be pretty quick, especially when I would have to consider the time and scheduling of transporting my bike to the LBS. But...

* I get to choose my battles. The bikes in my house are all fairly low tech by today's standards, none of them are ridden competitively, and I would buy a new bike based on what I think that I can maintain.

* I am the ideal "customer" because I'm closely attuned to the condition of my bike, patient when a part needs to be ordered. I won't blame the "mechanic" if I screw up the bike.

Plus, I simply enjoy the work, and am teaching it to my kids. On the other hand, I have lots of friends whom I would advise to take their bike to the shop for work, even fixing a flat. And one friend is a real hard core athletic rider who should be able to do his own repairs, but he just enjoys an excuse to visit the shop, chat with the people, and try out new components, which they install for him. I can't blame him for enjoying his hobby in the manner of his choosing.

About dunning krueger, good point. I think that I am smart enough. By day I work in an industrial setting where a screw up could cost millions. I know when I need to involve someone else when a job goes outside of my skill areas.
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Old 06-06-15, 09:45 PM
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I have no idea about bicycle shops across the country. Around here (typical Midwest) we have a mix of fine mechanics (some, 2nd generation bike shop owners) and young alternate-lifestyle stoners (no insult intended).

I have absolute confidence that if I had a repair that required a bicycle shop.... any of the local shops could (and would) assign the correct person to do the job.

On the other hand. I enjoy working on my bikes myself. I do not tinker! If I don't know what's wrong... or how to repair a bike... I do my homework first. I have good tools and I don't hesitate to buy more. To me.... wrenching is part of the bicycle hobby.

I am big believer in the old saying: If you can't fix it.... you don't own it. Meaning that you're merely renting from the repairman.

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Old 06-06-15, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
About dunning krueger, good point. I think that I am smart enough. By day I work in an industrial setting where a screw up could cost millions. I know when I need to involve someone else when a job goes outside of my skill areas.
Good to hear. But there's no 100% defense against it... unknown unknowns still bite seasoned players in the arse sometimes. Thankfully, with experience you can sort of identify the areas where they're more of a possibility, and bear that in mind.
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