Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

BB bracket - did I get a defective one, how do you read "L<- D-NL -> R"

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

BB bracket - did I get a defective one, how do you read "L<- D-NL -> R"

Reply

Old 06-27-15, 09:43 PM
  #1  
Baggins2012
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
BB bracket - did I get a defective one, how do you read "L<- D-NL -> R"

I have 86 Schwinn Sierra. Has traditional ball bearing BB. I have already cleaned and re greased a couple of times in the past, and thought a sealed bracket would be the way to go this time. Figured I'd update to Shimano BB 55 Got the 68 - 122 with english thread, 1.37 X 24.

I attempt install what I believe to be the drive side As you look the the large bracket piece with the spindles On this center of the bracket, there is a sticker that says "L<- D-NL -> R" then the the cup is to the right of the sticker, closest to the R. I tried to insert this into the right/ drive side of the bike. I know its reverse thread. I really do know its reverse thread.

I just CANNOT get it on. Get a few threads in and just wont go. Tried quite a few starts and re starts. Finally, I just cleaned out the old bottom bracket, re greased and put it back on. No problem of course. The original spun back on with no issue.

I have done the same BB swap operation on my 81 Le Tour with no problem, so I dont think its me.

So, either the 1986 Schwinn Sierra has Italian Threads (I see this as VERY unlikley)

OR

the bracket threads are defective?
the bracket is mislabeled as to which is the drive side, and the little cup goes on the drive side and the big piece goes on the non drive side.
I mis-interpreted which is the drive side of the bracket. I do find the D - NL do be confusing, as the D is on the left side.\


Ok, any ideas?

Last edited by Baggins2012; 06-27-15 at 09:46 PM. Reason: clarity
Baggins2012 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-15, 10:41 PM
  #2  
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,580

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
Baggins2012, The "L<- D-NL -> R" is unknown to me. As far as I can recall, all of my Shimano cartridge BBs have the length of the spindle between the L and R.

Brad
bradtx is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 01:21 AM
  #3  
ThermionicScott 
Hammer and tongs
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 17,397

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1611 Post(s)
Originally Posted by bradtx View Post
Baggins2012, The "L<- D-NL -> R" is unknown to me. As far as I can recall, all of my Shimano cartridge BBs have the length of the spindle between the L and R.

Brad
"D-NL" is Shimano's code for the 123mm length. They also use "D-H" for the 115mm, "D-EL" for the 127mm, and are prone to throwing extra letters into the others, like "MM110" and "XL118". Don't ask me why.

@Baggins2012, since there's a slight taper to the cups, it's really important to get them on straight. I generally start by spinning mine backward until I feel the threads line up. After that, it's normal to feel a little resistance -- I suspect the threads on these aluminum cups are cut in a way to make the fit tighter since they will wear faster than their steel counterparts, even during the first installation.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 01:28 AM
  #4  
RoadGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,334

Bikes: 89 Schwinn 754, 90 Trek 1100, 93 Trek 2300, 94 Trek 1400 (under construction), 94 Trek 930, 97 Trek 1400

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
I haven't replaced a Shimano sealed bearing cartridge in a while. But, from what I remember, the Non-Adjustable cup with the flange on it (that doesn't come off the bottom bracket) is the drive side. The cup that comes off the bottom bracket that does not have a flange is the Non-Driveside cup.

Grease the threads of the Non-Adjustable Driveside cup and screw it in until the flange is tight against the frame. Use a torque wrench to tighten to the Manufacturer's spec. Then, grease the treads of the Non-Driveside cup, and grease the inside of the Non-driveside cup. Screw the Non-driveside cup in until it bottoms on the bottom bracket, and use the torque wrench to tighten to spec.
RoadGuy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 03:43 AM
  #5  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 19,643

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1397 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Baggins2012 View Post
I have 86 Schwinn Sierra. Has traditional ball bearing BB. I have already cleaned and re greased a couple of times in the past, and thought a sealed bracket would be the way to go this time. Figured I'd update to Shimano BB 55 Got the 68 - 122 with english thread, 1.37 X 24. [. . .] I just CANNOT get it on. Get a few threads in and just wont go. Tried quite a few starts and re starts. Finally, I just cleaned out the old bottom bracket, re greased and put it back on. No problem of course. The original spun back on with no issue. [. . .] So, either the 1986 Schwinn Sierra has Italian Threads (I see this as VERY unlikley)
No. Not Italian thread. Italian thread has a wider diameter than English, so you wouldn't get any thread engagement -- it would just drop in.

I suspect you're just a victim of variation in manufacturing tolerances. Chasing the threads in the BB shell would likely help.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 06:29 AM
  #6  
Homebrew01
Super Moderator
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 20,853

Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 696 Post(s)
Just look at the cup threads to see which is right or left.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.

FYI: http://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Homebrew01 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 07:31 AM
  #7  
Baggins2012
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
"D-NL" is Shimano's code for the 123mm length. They also use "D-H" for the 115mm, "D-EL" for the 127mm, and are prone to throwing extra letters into the others, like "MM110" and "XL118". Don't ask me why.

@Baggins2012, since there's a slight taper to the cups, it's really important to get them on straight. I generally start by spinning mine backward until I feel the threads line up. After that, it's normal to feel a little resistance -- I suspect the threads on these aluminum cups are cut in a way to make the fit tighter since they will wear faster than their steel counterparts, even during the first installation.

Well you've definitively answered my question about that code, and confirmed that the one should follow the > R, which means the large piece with the spindle goes into the drive side. What a goofy way for Shimano to code the size. The "D" in the code could confuse. I did use the "R" as my guide.

As for the install, it wasnt a little resistance, and it was a LOT, I forced it a bit, with a 12 inch crescent wrench on the BB tool but gave up after a bit to avoid damaging my bike. I started and restarted 3 or 4 times tho.

My original steel cups spun right back on. Since I ride the bike in on dry, dusty dirt 2-3x per week, tho, it would be nice to have a sealed cartridge, the original cups gummed up within 4 months after my last re-grease.

I found that if I screw the orignal cups in as tight as i can , the spindle wont move. So I have to adjsut the cups much like the cups on wheel hub. Juuuust tight enought to avoid play, but not so tight as to bind. I assume this is correct?

Last edited by Baggins2012; 06-28-15 at 07:36 AM. Reason: clarity
Baggins2012 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 07:45 AM
  #8  
Bill Kapaun
Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Posts: 10,471

Bikes: 86 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 546 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Baggins2012 View Post
......I found that if I screw the orignal cups in as tight as i can , the spindle wont move. So I have to adjsut the cups much like the cups on wheel hub. Juuuust tight enought to avoid play, but not so tight as to bind. I assume this is correct?
Maybe that's why they call the NDS cup the "adjustable cup"?
Bill Kapaun is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 08:39 AM
  #9  
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,580

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
"D-NL" is Shimano's code for the 123mm length. They also use "D-H" for the 115mm, "D-EL" for the 127mm, and are prone to throwing extra letters into the others, like "MM110" and "XL118". Don't ask me why.
Thanks for the info!

Originally Posted by Baggins2012 View Post
... As for the install, it wasnt a little resistance, and it was a LOT, I forced it a bit, with a 12 inch crescent wrench on the BB tool but gave up after a bit to avoid damaging my bike. I started and restarted 3 or 4 times tho...
You might consider having the BB threads chased.

Brad
bradtx is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 08:51 AM
  #10  
Baggins2012
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by bradtx View Post
Thanks for the info!



You might consider having the BB threads chased.

Brad
Since my original steel ones go on pretty easily, kinda wonder if the problem is with the BB I got. I'd probably try another one before I did anything to the bike.
Baggins2012 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 10:55 AM
  #11  
SquidPuppet
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
 
SquidPuppet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Coeur d' Alene
Posts: 7,963

Bikes: 3 Chinese Gas Pipe Nerdcycles and 2 Chicago Electroforged Boat Anchors

Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2339 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Baggins2012 View Post
Since my original steel ones go on pretty easily, kinda wonder if the problem is with the BB I got. I'd probably try another one before I did anything to the bike.
That is very possible since the threads are so fine. You may not even be able to see the defect.

I recently had a threaded fork that would not allow the top race to go all the way down to the bearing. It would just STOP abruptly. I pulled the fork out to closely inspect the threads. I could not see any damage. No burrs, no squished or rounded peaks, no junk in the valleys. Looked fine. I took it to the LBS and after three minutes and five dollars for a nice oily chasing and it was perfect.
SquidPuppet is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 11:47 AM
  #12  
Homebrew01
Super Moderator
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 20,853

Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 696 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Baggins2012 View Post
My original steel cups spun right back on. Since I ride the bike in on dry, dusty dirt 2-3x per week, tho, it would be nice to have a sealed cartridge, the original cups gummed up within 4 months after my last re-grease.
I got some squishy foam for my square taper BB and cut out little foam doughnuts that slip of the BB axle before installing the cranks. They make great seals.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.

FYI: http://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Homebrew01 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 02:39 PM
  #13  
Baggins2012
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
I got some squishy foam for my square taper BB and cut out little foam doughnuts that slip of the BB axle before installing the cranks. They make great seals.
So you fully install teh BB then add the foam then cranks? Does it move your cranks out a material amount?
Baggins2012 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 02:56 PM
  #14  
bikeman715
Senior Member
 
bikeman715's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salinas , Ca.
Posts: 2,655

Bikes: Bike Nashbar AL-1 ,Raligh M50 , Schwinn Traveler , and others

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Most of the lower Shimano sealed BB go into the BB reveres . Where the lip go on the non drive side and the plastic cup go into the drive side . Look at the sealed unit and compare the treads to your old cups .
bikeman715 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 03:01 PM
  #15  
ThermionicScott 
Hammer and tongs
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 17,397

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1611 Post(s)
Originally Posted by bikeman715 View Post
Most of the lower Shimano sealed BB go into the BB reveres . Where the lip go on the non drive side and the plastic cup go into the drive side . Look at the sealed unit and compare the treads to your old cups .
That is NOT correct.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 03:05 PM
  #16  
bikeman715
Senior Member
 
bikeman715's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salinas , Ca.
Posts: 2,655

Bikes: Bike Nashbar AL-1 ,Raligh M50 , Schwinn Traveler , and others

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
That is NOT correct.
Yes it is , I have Done a few in my day and know what I am Talking About . If the person read the info . sleet that come with the BB they would see that .
bikeman715 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 03:12 PM
  #17  
Homebrew01
Super Moderator
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 20,853

Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 696 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Baggins2012 View Post
So you fully install teh BB then add the foam then cranks? Does it move your cranks out a material amount?
Yes
The foam is thin and goes between the cranks and the cups. Foam will not affect the crankarms.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.

FYI: http://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Homebrew01 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 03:12 PM
  #18  
ThermionicScott 
Hammer and tongs
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 17,397

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1611 Post(s)
Originally Posted by bikeman715 View Post
Yes it is , I have Done a few in my day and know what I am Talking About . If the person read the info . sleet that come with the BB they would see that .
Anyone reading the data sheet included with a UN26 or UN54/55 (like the OP) will see that you are spouting bull****. The cup that is permanently attached to the cartridge ALWAYS goes into the drive side for UN26/UN54/55 and up. Which ones are you talking about? Let's see data sheets.

UN26: http://www.shimano-benelux.com/media...9830694234.pdf

UN55: http://si.shimano.com/php/download.p...-UN55-3281.pdf
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 03:17 PM
  #19  
bikeman715
Senior Member
 
bikeman715's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salinas , Ca.
Posts: 2,655

Bikes: Bike Nashbar AL-1 ,Raligh M50 , Schwinn Traveler , and others

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Anyone reading the data sheet included with a UN26 or UN54/55 (like the OP) will see that you are spouting bull****. The cup that is permanently attached to the cartridge ALWAYS goes into the drive side for UN26/UN54/55 and up. Which ones are you talking about? Let's see data sheets.

UN26: http://www.shimano-benelux.com/media...9830694234.pdf

UN55: http://si.shimano.com/php/download.p...-UN55-3281.pdf
Try the LN series . For whatever reason Shimano LN are reverse from the UN .
bikeman715 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 03:22 PM
  #20  
ThermionicScott 
Hammer and tongs
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 17,397

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1611 Post(s)
Originally Posted by bikeman715 View Post
Try the LN series . For whatever reason Shimano LN are reverse from the UN .
Bottom brackets with "LN" in the part name are Tange branded and out of the scope of this thread. Even so, they look like they'd install the same: wellcome to Tange seiki
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 03:37 PM
  #21  
Bezalel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: City of Brotherly Love
Posts: 1,561

Bikes: Raleigh Companion, Nashbar Touring, Novara DiVano, Trek FX 7.1, Giant Upland

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Anyone reading the data sheet included with a UN26 or UN54/55 (like the OP) will see that you are spouting bull****. The cup that is permanently attached to the cartridge ALWAYS goes into the drive side for UN26/UN54/55 and up. Which ones are you talking about? Let's see data sheets.
Although I've never seen one, according to Park Tool they exist. Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Cartridge Bearing Type Bottom Bracket Service

There are two different styles of Shimano® cartridge bottom brackets. One type has a fixed flange on the right side (drive side). The other type has a fixed flange on the left side (non-drive side). Each one uses a removable ring opposite the fixed flange. See the figure below.
Bezalel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 03:44 PM
  #22  
ThermionicScott 
Hammer and tongs
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 17,397

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1611 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Bezalel View Post
Although I've never seen one, according to Park Tool they exist. Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Cartridge Bearing Type Bottom Bracket Service
Interesting. I wonder if that was an abandoned early version of the cartridge type BB, included for completeness. I've never seen one either, and this page offers more confirmation (if any should be needed) as to which end goes where if "L" and "R" are marked.

If anyone can find datasheets for these reversed-style BBs, I'd be interested to see them.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 04:37 PM
  #23  
AnkleWork
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Llano Estacado
Posts: 3,008

Bikes: old clunker

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 406 Post(s)
Originally Posted by bikeman715 View Post
Most of the lower Shimano sealed BB go into the BB reveres . Where the lip go on the non drive side and the plastic cup go into the drive side . Look at the sealed unit and compare the treads to your old cups .
I've installed or removed a few of these -- not too rare. Oddly, you can completely rebuild some of that type with ordinary tools.
AnkleWork is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 04:53 PM
  #24  
bikeman715
Senior Member
 
bikeman715's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salinas , Ca.
Posts: 2,655

Bikes: Bike Nashbar AL-1 ,Raligh M50 , Schwinn Traveler , and others

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Interesting. I wonder if that was an abandoned early version of the cartridge type BB, included for completeness. I've never seen one either, and this page offers more confirmation (if any should be needed) as to which end goes where if "L" and "R" are marked.

If anyone can find datasheets for these reversed-style BBs, I'd be interested to see them.
They still being made and found on lower price bikes , the ones you see around the $ 400 .00 mark . And can be brought from QBP for replacement . Yes Tange Brand was /is one of them as others .
bikeman715 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-15, 06:21 PM
  #25  
dr1445
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Broad Brook CT
Posts: 516

Bikes: 1986 bianchi strada, jamis 2002 komodo, 1986 univega aplina uno, miele toscana 300, 1972 puch brigadier, 1992 bianchi advantage

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
i start the non drive threaded collar in first to support the body of the bb inserted from the drive side. as stated before turn the bb backwards till the tread falls in. on rare occasions i have had to take a needle file to clean up the bb leade threads.
dr1445 is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service