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Mix and Match

Old 07-06-15, 11:33 PM
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Mix and Match

I ride 1982 Maruishi Empire triathlon, with shimano 105 5700. Recently I've been thinking of upgrading to better groups. However I'm still in university and money is low. So as an alternative I'm thinking of mix and matching.

I'm thinking of using Campagnolo Athena crank set, veloce front derailleur, Athena rear derailleur, Shimano 105 5700 10 speed cassettes and chain with bottom tube shifter.

I know that some really dislike the mix and matching of campagnolo and shimano but due to lack of funding I'm thinking of going with this.

I would really appreciate it if someone could give me a conformation that this mix works or another alternative.

thanks !

Loshin
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Old 07-07-15, 01:27 AM
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Here is a list of cable pulls.
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bicycl...ing_Dimensions

So, if you use Campy 10s brifters + OLD Campy 9s RD, then you should get about a shift pitch of 3.97, which should work with the Shimano 10s cassette.

Look for a 9s RD with the B-Screw near the derailleur mount (as opposed to on the cage).

There is also the Jtek Shiftmate that should help. The company closed in the USA, but are now available from SJS Cycles in the UK

====================================

Oh, downtube shifters? Are you using friction shifters? There is a LOT OF FLEXIBILITY with those. Indexed shifters have the same limitations as brifters.
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Old 07-07-15, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by loshino
I know that some really dislike the mix and matching of campagnolo and shimano but due to lack of funding I'm thinking of going with this.
It's not that people dislike combining them; the problem is that the cable pull ratios and distances between cogs are different between Campagnolo and Shimano. They're not intended to be compatible with one another and won't typically work together.

Some people have done the math to figure out a few combinations of parts that are "close enough" to work together, and CliffordK gave one example. He also mentioned the Jtek Shiftmate, which is an adapter designed to mate shifters and derailleurs that would normally be incompatible. If you're currently running Shimano 10-speed shifters, derailleurs, and cassette, I have my doubts that a mismatched system will work any better than what you already have.
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Old 07-07-15, 05:11 AM
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Thanks for the reply !

I see, so would it work if i use bottom tube shifters (friction). For example I will use Athena crankset with shimano 10 speed cassettes. If I install dura ace 10 speed friction shifter, my theory is that the shift will work fine as ratio will match the 10 speed cassettes. My only worry is that the shimano 10 speed chain is too wide for athenas chain ring.
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Old 07-07-15, 05:17 AM
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Thanks for the reply !

Yeah Im planning to use friction, Ive just read SkyDog75 comments and other info and its just seems that shifters do not fit comfortably. Actually I should of said friction instead of bottom tube shifter. Im planning to install TRP RRL brake leavers.

I would have thought that 10 speed friction shifter would work fine if I used 10 speed shimano cassettes and athena crank set. My only worry is that the athena chainrings tooth are too narrow for 10 speed shimano chain.
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Old 07-07-15, 06:25 AM
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If your money is low then why are you wasting money upgrading anything? Is there something wrong with the 105?
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Old 07-07-15, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by hyhuu
If your money is low then why are you wasting money upgrading anything? Is there something wrong with the 105?
+1 What do you hope to gain? You already have a really nice, modern, 10 speed group on there.
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Old 07-07-15, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by hyhuu
If your money is low then why are you wasting money upgrading anything? Is there something wrong with the 105?
Originally Posted by FastJake
+1 What do you hope to gain? You already have a really nice, modern, 10 speed group on there.
That's what I was thinking too. What are you hoping to accomplish? A mismatched shifting system is not likely to perform better than what you have now.
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Old 07-07-15, 08:52 AM
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Thanks for the comments guys

I can see that my ambition of upgrading is ridiculous seeing as I have little to spend, but I really like the campagnolo crankset. Having a cromo bike makes me want to have this vintage modern look. Also I would love to mix and match as I haven't doe it before.

I do want to make one thing clear, I do not intend on using modern shifters, I intend on using friction shifters.
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Old 07-07-15, 09:28 AM
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Finish school, get a job then upgrade. Meanwhile why not just enjoy the ride?
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Old 07-07-15, 09:33 AM
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Yeah that would be the right idea but I want to do it now, spoilt I know, but I want to buy the parts with my part time job money hahaha, I do enjoy the ride, but I just want a bit more.
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Old 07-07-15, 10:15 AM
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Your 105 5700 crankset is better than any Campy model. Don't worry so much about the snob appeal and enjoy the ride.

The mix of parts you want to use (in the OP) should technically work since you're using friction shifters. But there's no logical reason to do any of it.
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Old 07-07-15, 11:24 AM
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Friction shifting is a Neutral territory .
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Old 07-07-15, 12:15 PM
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Friction shifting will work with just about anything. However, I think I've messed up a bit that I'm using Campy friction shifters with a Shimano derailleur... and I think the pull of the derailleur is a bit more.. meaning it takes more cable... so the friction shifters just about bottom out with 9s. Still ok, but not much pull left.

I don't want to debate whether Campy or Shimano cranks are better, but the Shimano bolt circles are more widely supported than the Campy bolt circles, so there is a greater (cheaper) availability of chainrings for Shimano cranks. The chainrings will last a very long time so it may not be important unless you are wanting to put together something with unique combinations.

Anyway... with your friction shifters... replace a few parts as needed with your dream parts, but I'd discourage just going out and doing mass upgrades.
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Old 07-09-15, 01:39 AM
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Really appreciate the replies !

So I went to a cycling shop today and asked about the combination. According to the shop, campy derailer will not work with indexed shimano friction levers.

From my point of view i thought that all derailer were spring mechanism, thus it will move along with any shifter. The only problem I see is how far the derailer moves when its at high gear and low gear....if you get what i mean..

Any opinion on this matter ?
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Old 07-09-15, 01:52 AM
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See the pull ratios linked above:
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bicycl...ing_Dimensions

With friction shifters, mix and match to your heart's content... with a few exceptions of not enough overall pull.

Indexed shifters, whether it is brifters, or DT shifters have to match the derailleur.
Some shifters may ratchet, without true indexing, and would be similar to the friction shifters.

Note, most Shimano derailleurs, with a few exception has a pull ratio of 1.7, so you can generally mix and match different Shimano derailleurs, although some will be more index friendly than others.
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Old 07-10-15, 06:43 AM
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Thank you so much !!
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