How Difficult is it To Choose and Put Together a Bike From Scratch
#51
Mechanic/Tourist
I don't see the satisfaction in doing a scratch build over that one can have in doing a complete rebuild of one's own bike. Somehow building a new bike from scratch has become the penultimate goal for many, but in truth relatively few of the most experienced riders and mechanics have done so.
Last edited by cny-bikeman; 07-13-15 at 05:53 PM.
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 118
Bikes: Surly Cross-Check, Rescued early 1990s Frankenbike (Univega frame; mix of found Centaur and Daytona parts); mid-1990s Casati, Linus Gaston
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I don't see the satisfaction in doing a scratch build over that one can have in doing a complete rebuild of one's own bike. Somehow building a new bike from scratch has become the penultimate goal for many, but in truth relatively few of the most experienced riders and mechanics have done so.
But what I don't get why those who DO get gratification from having built their own bikes have somehow done something unwise or (as you seemed to suggest in an earlier post) are doing it for reasons of vanity. I don't think it is necessarily unwise or wrong to begin a project or without having an expert-level understanding before one starts. Yes, you make mistakes; yes, it will cost you, and yes, there's a risk of failure.
Just because I don't see the value in something doesn't mean there isn't any value in it. I don't understand why my daughter is fascinated by (and spends her money on) Japanese Anime; there's no appeal in it for me. But I think it would be kind of churlish of me to dismissively say that she's doing something wrong.
#53
Goes to 11.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wichita, KS, USA
Posts: 2,547
Bikes: 2015 Soma Double Cross
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Some people enjoy building bikes, some enjoy buying them, and some enjoy riding them. No group is "wrong," as the whole point for 90% of cyclists is to enjoy the bicycle.
I just completed my first 100% scratch build after several years of wrenching on bikes at the coop, as well as flipping my own bikes on Craigslist. I needed those years, both to learn how everything on a bike goes together, as well as how to use the tools I would need to complete assembly. When I was ready to do my build, I'd already gathered all the tools I'd need, so my only expense was in the purchase of parts and the time I spent assembling. If you don't know how to properly use the tools you need to build a bike, you could end up damaging the frame or components. You could also build something that isn't safe to ride.
It takes an awful long time to learn what you want out of a bike. In my case, it also took a lot of trial-and-error, especially as it relates to fit. Online calculators can only do so much; only butt-in-saddle time can teach you what you need to know about being comfortable on a bike. Considerations must also be made for the type of riding you plan to do; whether it's a road bike, mountain bike, BMX, or whatever, there's enough variety and sub-categories that a person can spend months just picking out the right frame.
Say you've learned how to wrench and you have a reasonable idea of how a bike should fit. Now you need to figure out what parts to buy. You need to know what's compatible with the frame you selected, and you need to figure out all the bits and bobs you'll also need to get those parts working. An example: I built a cyclocross bike with cantilever brakes and integrated brake/shift levers. So I needed cable stops, adjusters, and cable hangers. If you buy a frame meant for disc brakes, you sometimes need adapter mounts for the calipers. You need to know whether the frame is compatible with hydraulic brakes or mechanical. Many of these small parts are easy to forget or overlook when you're planning the build, until you get to the point in assembly where you need them and can't continue until you get them. In some cases, you don't even get the opportunity to figure that stuff out until the frame is sitting in the workstand.
I say none of this to encourage or discourage completing a scratch build. Personally, I find the process of bike assembly to be very satisfying. You likely will too, if you're mechanically inclined, patient, and start the build with the expectation that you may make mistakes. Just be aware that the process requires some combination of experience, money, and time. If you're lacking in one area, you'll need an extra investment from the other two to complete the project.
I just completed my first 100% scratch build after several years of wrenching on bikes at the coop, as well as flipping my own bikes on Craigslist. I needed those years, both to learn how everything on a bike goes together, as well as how to use the tools I would need to complete assembly. When I was ready to do my build, I'd already gathered all the tools I'd need, so my only expense was in the purchase of parts and the time I spent assembling. If you don't know how to properly use the tools you need to build a bike, you could end up damaging the frame or components. You could also build something that isn't safe to ride.
It takes an awful long time to learn what you want out of a bike. In my case, it also took a lot of trial-and-error, especially as it relates to fit. Online calculators can only do so much; only butt-in-saddle time can teach you what you need to know about being comfortable on a bike. Considerations must also be made for the type of riding you plan to do; whether it's a road bike, mountain bike, BMX, or whatever, there's enough variety and sub-categories that a person can spend months just picking out the right frame.
Say you've learned how to wrench and you have a reasonable idea of how a bike should fit. Now you need to figure out what parts to buy. You need to know what's compatible with the frame you selected, and you need to figure out all the bits and bobs you'll also need to get those parts working. An example: I built a cyclocross bike with cantilever brakes and integrated brake/shift levers. So I needed cable stops, adjusters, and cable hangers. If you buy a frame meant for disc brakes, you sometimes need adapter mounts for the calipers. You need to know whether the frame is compatible with hydraulic brakes or mechanical. Many of these small parts are easy to forget or overlook when you're planning the build, until you get to the point in assembly where you need them and can't continue until you get them. In some cases, you don't even get the opportunity to figure that stuff out until the frame is sitting in the workstand.
I say none of this to encourage or discourage completing a scratch build. Personally, I find the process of bike assembly to be very satisfying. You likely will too, if you're mechanically inclined, patient, and start the build with the expectation that you may make mistakes. Just be aware that the process requires some combination of experience, money, and time. If you're lacking in one area, you'll need an extra investment from the other two to complete the project.
Last edited by striknein; 07-13-15 at 07:08 PM.
#54
Mechanic/Tourist
I did not say doing so was unwise, merely pointed out the possible imbalance between input and result, and as for the vanity issue, it was another poster that said that bragging rights (external validation) were "kind of the point."
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 118
Bikes: Surly Cross-Check, Rescued early 1990s Frankenbike (Univega frame; mix of found Centaur and Daytona parts); mid-1990s Casati, Linus Gaston
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
You also did specifically use the term unwise: "It's unwise to build anything you can buy already built if you don't know what you need or even how to tell what you need, don't know how to do it, and don't have the tools to complete it." To me that seems a poverty of imagination. I think people can learn by doing, and the most worthwhile endeavors involve things that you can't predict or plan in advance.
I think, whether you wanted to or not, you discouraged and dismissed the OP's motive because you couldn't understand why (s)he wanted to do what to me is a perfectly understandable thing -- make a bicycle his or her own in a way that wouldn't be possible by buying it already fully built. Again, I suspect that this is because you are already an expert on the subject and for you there is no challenge at all. For the rest of us, though, it might just be a big deal.
#56
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,896
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26211 Post(s)
Liked 10,177 Times
in
7,060 Posts
...basic economics. The guys who do this professionally are almost always poorly paid, thus tight with a buck. don't ask me how I know this.
__________________
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,600
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18302 Post(s)
Liked 4,470 Times
in
3,326 Posts
It is very true you get a way better price buying prebuilt. Being a Clyde myself left my options pretty limited though. The frame I used came prebuilt with strong enough wheels...but I did not want drop bars. This would have meant new shifters and bars and cables. I probably spent 70 percent more than prebuilt...but I used higher grade components and got exactly what I wanted. My wheel set was a bit more than necessary...but should last a long long time.
On the new market, however, you can be very specific with your purchases.
If building wheels, for example, I will only use Stainless spokes. Usually a decent hub, and while I've done both straight and butted spokes, I'm now moving to mainly butted spokes.
I'm always amazed at what otherwise should be a nice 700c wheelset from a major manufacturer will have straight spokes, or a very cheap hub.
I'm now using all stainless brake and shifter cables, and generally add a little more care here and there in the build.
A bike manufacturer might do mostly 105 parts, but then toss in a few Tiagra or Sora level components. You don't have to do that.
#58
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
BMX racers scratch build custom bikes because they want it to suit their riding style and aesthetic desires. It's super common there.
Mountain bike riders and racers do the same thing, for the same reasons.
Tourers as well because their needs are so specific to their journeys.
C&V is ALL about scratch building. Finding the "Grail" frame and then sourcing all the period correct components.
And in the SS/FG and track world, I can tell you that scratch building is a huge part of the culture.
There are even forums with big membership and traffic numbers dedicated to custom building from scratch.
Sure, most people buy a complete bike from and LBS. But I don't think scratch building bikes is the niche hobby you think it is.
#59
Mechanic/Tourist
There are probably thousands who have truly built from scratch - but there are millions of serious riders, which is why I said "relatively few." Point is that many of the people who have the most expertise and resources still do not do it all that often. The reason is that there is a very wide selection of bikes available, many of the parts and frames are not that different from each other, and it's relatively easy to change out the things that are most critical to change relative to usage and the rider/bike interface. I changed the handlebars, stem, saddle and tires on my last bike, and gearing is also pretty easy to alter. I can't imagine having a much better bike for even twice the price. Yes, if I had $3000 to blow I might just spec a custom frame, as I know exactly what geometry works for me and I'd like to have a custom paint job to look at rather than my bike's boring brown. But at under $1000 for my bike after trading out a few components and selling the leftovers I have both more money and riding time than if I did a scratch build. I assembled the bike, made the changes myself, and checked the hub bearings as well. One advantage of buying from REI was that there was no problem in ordering an unassembled bike.
If someone wants to do a scratch build go ahead. I may seem like a naysayer, but many times people are not realistic about what is required and the level of benefit.
If someone wants to do a scratch build go ahead. I may seem like a naysayer, but many times people are not realistic about what is required and the level of benefit.
Last edited by cny-bikeman; 07-14-15 at 02:24 PM.
#60
Keepin it Wheel
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 10,229
Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked 3,390 Times
in
2,507 Posts
You've already gotten plenty of right answers above (as well as some bickering between subjective views -- you'll have to decide for yourself what you enjoy/prefer).
If it helps, here's the record of my from-scratch build. And many have already called out headset press and fork crown race as the most specialized tools you'd need, SquidPuppet gave a picture, but this is the link that will explain it best. (However, note that it is I think fairly common for a frame/fork that you might buy to already have the headset/crown race already installed, as well as a bottom bracket)
Bottom line, saving money is difficult with a scratch build, so if that's your primary goal you may well be disappointed. But if your primary goal is to learn bikes and have fun assembling one, then building a bike is well within the reach of the marginally handy, and very rewarding. In the end most of the work is just screwing stuff onto a frame, not that hard.
If it helps, here's the record of my from-scratch build. And many have already called out headset press and fork crown race as the most specialized tools you'd need, SquidPuppet gave a picture, but this is the link that will explain it best. (However, note that it is I think fairly common for a frame/fork that you might buy to already have the headset/crown race already installed, as well as a bottom bracket)
Bottom line, saving money is difficult with a scratch build, so if that's your primary goal you may well be disappointed. But if your primary goal is to learn bikes and have fun assembling one, then building a bike is well within the reach of the marginally handy, and very rewarding. In the end most of the work is just screwing stuff onto a frame, not that hard.
#61
Broom Wagon Fodder
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,384
Bikes: Fuji Supreme; Kona Wo; Nashbar road frame custom build; Schwinn Varsity; Nishiki International; Schwinn Premis, Falcon Merckx, American Flyer muscle bike, Motobecane Mulekick
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 64 Times
in
30 Posts
I'm also in the camp of "buy a 70's/80's 10-speed, take it all apart, clean it, grease it, and put it all back together to make it ride like new."
First off, go to VeloNews and find the article where they show the dissection of the knockoff carbon frame that supposedly "came from the same mold" as the high end one. Spoiler: It didn't and it was crap. So if the idea of buying a cheap Chinese carbon frame is the driving force behind building a bike, you are making a big mistake.
If, like many of us, you like working on bikes as much as riding them and you want to ride something you made, start with the old 10-speed. You'll have to buy some tools and the parts will add up to a cost that is more than the price of a new bike (because you didn't buy 3,000 of each part to get the discount).
The hardest part is matching all the specs. You need a rear wheel that has the right spacing for the dropouts. You need a stem that matches both the fork and the bars, you need levers that match the bars, you need races that match the head tube and bottom bracket. You need the right spindle width for the crank, you need the right seat tube for the frame. And .1mm is a big deal. I challenge anyone that claims they got everything right the first time they tried to build a bike!
And you'll make mistakes. You'll cut some cable housing a little too short. It really helps to have a couple of bike shops nearby so you can go to a different one to get that replacement housing so the first one doesn't know how you screwed up!
I've enjoyed building and riding bikes I can't buy. I put a Nexus 8-speed rear wheel on a Schwinn Premis frame. I got an old Falcon/Merckx frame and fork and built up a nice bike to ride to the All British Cycle Event. The only thing I haven't done yet is build wheels. Not sure I want to go there since I have a few friends who like to do it and are quite good.
First off, go to VeloNews and find the article where they show the dissection of the knockoff carbon frame that supposedly "came from the same mold" as the high end one. Spoiler: It didn't and it was crap. So if the idea of buying a cheap Chinese carbon frame is the driving force behind building a bike, you are making a big mistake.
If, like many of us, you like working on bikes as much as riding them and you want to ride something you made, start with the old 10-speed. You'll have to buy some tools and the parts will add up to a cost that is more than the price of a new bike (because you didn't buy 3,000 of each part to get the discount).
The hardest part is matching all the specs. You need a rear wheel that has the right spacing for the dropouts. You need a stem that matches both the fork and the bars, you need levers that match the bars, you need races that match the head tube and bottom bracket. You need the right spindle width for the crank, you need the right seat tube for the frame. And .1mm is a big deal. I challenge anyone that claims they got everything right the first time they tried to build a bike!
And you'll make mistakes. You'll cut some cable housing a little too short. It really helps to have a couple of bike shops nearby so you can go to a different one to get that replacement housing so the first one doesn't know how you screwed up!
I've enjoyed building and riding bikes I can't buy. I put a Nexus 8-speed rear wheel on a Schwinn Premis frame. I got an old Falcon/Merckx frame and fork and built up a nice bike to ride to the All British Cycle Event. The only thing I haven't done yet is build wheels. Not sure I want to go there since I have a few friends who like to do it and are quite good.
#62
Keepin it Wheel
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 10,229
Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked 3,390 Times
in
2,507 Posts
First off, go to VeloNews and find the article where they show the dissection of the knockoff carbon frame that supposedly "came from the same mold" as the high end one. Spoiler: It didn't and it was crap. So if the idea of buying a cheap Chinese carbon frame is the driving force behind building a bike, you are making a big mistake.
#63
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,825
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 401 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
...building a bike from scratch is foolish until you have the experience and tooling to actually do it. Those, and the basis for knowing what you need and why, the compatibility and standards issues, all underpinned by knowing what decisions must be made in which sequence while designing/selecting components.
And then, there are the steps to assembly that are optimum so that you don't have to undo or correct mistakes made because you handled things out of sequence.
For a beginner, it's a fools errand.
Oh, and Nixon/Ford here.
And then, there are the steps to assembly that are optimum so that you don't have to undo or correct mistakes made because you handled things out of sequence.
For a beginner, it's a fools errand.
Oh, and Nixon/Ford here.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
marinmillvalley
Bicycle Mechanics
4
02-22-11 11:02 PM