How Difficult is it To Choose and Put Together a Bike From Scratch
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How Difficult is it To Choose and Put Together a Bike From Scratch
Hi,
Firstly, I"m not talking about a pre-assembled bike.
I mean buying a frameset, wheels and components individually and assembling it myself
I'm curious to see if its even possible for me (not much wrenching experience but have patience. I've tuned bikes before but never assembled one from scratch).
I'm thinking that I would buy an entire 105 groupset (Shimano 105 5800 Group Set - Silver) and choose a frameset around that.
The questions I have is:
a) How hard is the design part? By that I mean finding a frameset that matches the components so everything fits.
b) How hard is it to do the actual assembly? How much time will it take for a professional to do it? (I figured I would triple this number)
c) What special tools will I require?
I know I probably have too much time on my hands but it could be a fun exercise if it ultimately leads to success and I'll learn a lot of stuff along the way.
Firstly, I"m not talking about a pre-assembled bike.
I mean buying a frameset, wheels and components individually and assembling it myself
I'm curious to see if its even possible for me (not much wrenching experience but have patience. I've tuned bikes before but never assembled one from scratch).
I'm thinking that I would buy an entire 105 groupset (Shimano 105 5800 Group Set - Silver) and choose a frameset around that.
The questions I have is:
a) How hard is the design part? By that I mean finding a frameset that matches the components so everything fits.
b) How hard is it to do the actual assembly? How much time will it take for a professional to do it? (I figured I would triple this number)
c) What special tools will I require?
I know I probably have too much time on my hands but it could be a fun exercise if it ultimately leads to success and I'll learn a lot of stuff along the way.
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Lot of it depends on what frame you are getting. Hardest part is understanding all the standards and getting the correct parts.
Depending on the frame, you might not need anymore than a set of Allen wrenches and a Dremel tool for cutting cables and housing. Best to let your LBS do the crown race and maybe the headset if it needs cups pressed in. BB choice may require tools or LBS help pressing in the BB.
Then setup of the derailleurs.
Some info on doing a MTB
Building a full suspension bike-Step by Step- Mtbr.com
Depending on the frame, you might not need anymore than a set of Allen wrenches and a Dremel tool for cutting cables and housing. Best to let your LBS do the crown race and maybe the headset if it needs cups pressed in. BB choice may require tools or LBS help pressing in the BB.
Then setup of the derailleurs.
Some info on doing a MTB
Building a full suspension bike-Step by Step- Mtbr.com
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It can be a great learning experience but can also be a very expensive way to buy a bike. Bike manufacturers buy in huge quantities and can negotiate much lower prices than you can ever approach. You can achieve significant savings by shopping the sale/online/EBay route but if you pay full retail plus shipping expect to pay significantly more than an assembled bike. The upside is that it will be exactly what you want. Not trying to discourage you but you need to be aware of this going in.
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Lot of it depends on what frame you are getting. Hardest part is understanding all the standards and getting the correct parts.
Depending on the frame, you might not need anymore than a set of Allen wrenches and a Dremel tool for cutting cables and housing. Best to let your LBS do the crown race and maybe the headset if it needs cups pressed in. BB choice may require tools or LBS help pressing in the BB.
Then setup of the derailleurs.
Some info on doing a MTB
Building a full suspension bike-Step by Step- Mtbr.com
Depending on the frame, you might not need anymore than a set of Allen wrenches and a Dremel tool for cutting cables and housing. Best to let your LBS do the crown race and maybe the headset if it needs cups pressed in. BB choice may require tools or LBS help pressing in the BB.
Then setup of the derailleurs.
Some info on doing a MTB
Building a full suspension bike-Step by Step- Mtbr.com
Are you saying the Crown race, headset and BB are just too difficult for an amateur to do even with time?
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Thanks @Slash5 That's what I suspected. I was going to build a road bike so are there any guides on how to match the right frame to the right group set?
Are you saying the Crown race, headset and BB are just too difficult for an amateur to do even with time?
Are you saying the Crown race, headset and BB are just too difficult for an amateur to do even with time?
You generally need special tooos that you may find not worth spending the moneys on. And further messing up the install can irreparably damage your frame
#6
Banned
if working on bikes since JFK was President, and buying a bunch of shop tools not difficult, But..
a piece at a time build or even importing a Group-set, it will cost more than buying the bike complete,
and doing a tear down and putting it back together and greasing the dry fittings the assembly line does not take the time do.
a piece at a time build or even importing a Group-set, it will cost more than buying the bike complete,
and doing a tear down and putting it back together and greasing the dry fittings the assembly line does not take the time do.
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Cost issue aside, it doesn't take too much more than what you should already know:
a) read the spec of the frame carefully. Pay special attention to parts where the frame meets other part(bottom bracket standard? headset diameter? front derailleur mount type? brake mount type? if it doesn't come with a seat post, seat post diameter?). Keep these in mind when selecting other components. I singled out frame since it's almost certain that it's the biggest ticket item, but you should do the same for other components too(rear hub's cassette compatibility, for example)
b) Depending on how pre-assembled you receive your component(some frame comes with headset/fork assembled), I'd say it's not hard as long as you don't over-do it. (don't tighten things too much) I'm not a pro, but I think a pro could assemble the whole bike in a matter of hours if given all the tools needed.
c) The most "special" tools I could think of are the presses for headset and (if you go with press-fit BB) BB. Besides that there are some tools that will make life a lot easier(cassette lockring remover, good cable/housing cutter) A bike stand helps a lot. If you go with Carbon, get a torque wrench, it will likely save you from cracks due to over-tightening. Other than these, it's mostly allen key work. I agree that if you don't want to buy the presses(pretty expensive), go to LBS and let the pros do the headset/BB.
It will be a fun experience either way, more fun if it's a success. good luck
a) read the spec of the frame carefully. Pay special attention to parts where the frame meets other part(bottom bracket standard? headset diameter? front derailleur mount type? brake mount type? if it doesn't come with a seat post, seat post diameter?). Keep these in mind when selecting other components. I singled out frame since it's almost certain that it's the biggest ticket item, but you should do the same for other components too(rear hub's cassette compatibility, for example)
b) Depending on how pre-assembled you receive your component(some frame comes with headset/fork assembled), I'd say it's not hard as long as you don't over-do it. (don't tighten things too much) I'm not a pro, but I think a pro could assemble the whole bike in a matter of hours if given all the tools needed.
c) The most "special" tools I could think of are the presses for headset and (if you go with press-fit BB) BB. Besides that there are some tools that will make life a lot easier(cassette lockring remover, good cable/housing cutter) A bike stand helps a lot. If you go with Carbon, get a torque wrench, it will likely save you from cracks due to over-tightening. Other than these, it's mostly allen key work. I agree that if you don't want to buy the presses(pretty expensive), go to LBS and let the pros do the headset/BB.
It will be a fun experience either way, more fun if it's a success. good luck
#8
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
Thanks @Slash5 That's what I suspected. I was going to build a road bike so are there any guides on how to match the right frame to the right group set?
Are you saying the Crown race, headset and BB are just too difficult for an amateur to do even with time?
Are you saying the Crown race, headset and BB are just too difficult for an amateur to do even with time?
You can make a crown race tool the same way. A piece of pipe the correct ID. Oh, and a hammer.
If you have ANY mechanical inclination at all, building a bike can be as simple as reading instructions written by a savvy mechanic (Sheldon Brown) and getting busy. You mentioned that you have patience. I bet you'd be fine.
Building your own custom bike costs more, but it comes out exactly as you dreamed it would, and it's very very rewarding. Both the bike and the building process.
#9
Constant tinkerer
In my opinion, building a bike from scratch only makes sense once you've been around them enough to know that you can't get what you want from a stock bike. Another way to say it is that there's no point in building a custom bike and getting "exactly what you want" when you don't even know what you want.
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Paradoxically...
...building a bike from scratch is foolish until you have the experience and tooling to actually do it. Those, and the basis for knowing what you need and why, the compatibility and standards issues, all underpinned by knowing what decisions must be made in which sequence while designing/selecting components.
And then, there are the steps to assembly that are optimum so that you don't have to undo or correct mistakes made because you handled things out of sequence.
For a beginner, it's a fools errand.
Oh, and Nixon/Ford here.
And then, there are the steps to assembly that are optimum so that you don't have to undo or correct mistakes made because you handled things out of sequence.
For a beginner, it's a fools errand.
Oh, and Nixon/Ford here.
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You already got some excellent advice.
It's fun, rewarding, and educational, and you'll be very proud of the work that you put into the finished bike.
Ask a lot of questions before you plunge ahead on a particular area, if you're not sure about it.
If you plan to continue to do work on your bike or your future bikes, then you should invest in the tools, otherwise perhaps you can borrow from a friend, club, or co-op. I'm guessing that you'll enjoy it so much that you'll want to invest in the proper tools and a good repair stand.
When you come across a part in the assemply process that you don't have the proper tool, skill, or desire to do yourself, bring the frame to your LBS and have them help you with it.
For example, on my last build, I had a very stuck fixed BB cup that I couldn't get off without the proper tool, which costs well over $100. I didn't want to kluge a solution and risk scratching the paint job on my vintage steel frame. Also, this is very likely the last cup/cone BB that I plan to work on, so I didn't want to waste my money on getting that expensive tool. My LBS had the fixed cup off in about 2 minutes, and at the same time, they checked my BB face and dimensions to make sure that it would accept the new crankset that I was planning to install on it. After that, I was able to continue with my build.
Good luck, and have fun. Oh, and post pictures here
It's fun, rewarding, and educational, and you'll be very proud of the work that you put into the finished bike.
Ask a lot of questions before you plunge ahead on a particular area, if you're not sure about it.
If you plan to continue to do work on your bike or your future bikes, then you should invest in the tools, otherwise perhaps you can borrow from a friend, club, or co-op. I'm guessing that you'll enjoy it so much that you'll want to invest in the proper tools and a good repair stand.
When you come across a part in the assemply process that you don't have the proper tool, skill, or desire to do yourself, bring the frame to your LBS and have them help you with it.
For example, on my last build, I had a very stuck fixed BB cup that I couldn't get off without the proper tool, which costs well over $100. I didn't want to kluge a solution and risk scratching the paint job on my vintage steel frame. Also, this is very likely the last cup/cone BB that I plan to work on, so I didn't want to waste my money on getting that expensive tool. My LBS had the fixed cup off in about 2 minutes, and at the same time, they checked my BB face and dimensions to make sure that it would accept the new crankset that I was planning to install on it. After that, I was able to continue with my build.
Good luck, and have fun. Oh, and post pictures here
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No. Unless the manufacturer has properly prepped the frame and fork before it left the factory (you can't count on this, unfortunately), the tools needed to do that job are far too expensive for a one-off job: hundreds to over a thousand dollars depending on how many of them you need to complete the job so you can install the headset and bottom bracket.
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Thanks for the great advise both for and against the idea!
I'm thinking a good starting project would be to take apart and put together my existing bike. Do you agree? I can do that without too much trouble then that's a good indication I can put together a bike from scratch?
So for the task of taking apart and putting a bike together can anyone point to a solid guide (I found some using google but wanted people's opinions).
Thanks again.
I'm thinking a good starting project would be to take apart and put together my existing bike. Do you agree? I can do that without too much trouble then that's a good indication I can put together a bike from scratch?
So for the task of taking apart and putting a bike together can anyone point to a solid guide (I found some using google but wanted people's opinions).
Thanks again.
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Thanks for the great advise both for and against the idea!
I'm thinking a good starting project would be to take apart and put together my existing bike. Do you agree? I can do that without too much trouble then that's a good indication I can put together a bike from scratch?
So for the task of taking apart and putting a bike together can anyone point to a solid guide (I found some using google but wanted people's opinions).
Thanks again.
I'm thinking a good starting project would be to take apart and put together my existing bike. Do you agree? I can do that without too much trouble then that's a good indication I can put together a bike from scratch?
So for the task of taking apart and putting a bike together can anyone point to a solid guide (I found some using google but wanted people's opinions).
Thanks again.
If I'd go through this, I'd take a LOT of pictures of what you DID during the take-apart, so if something went wrong at least you have some reference of what it looked like, instead of a pile of parts. They also make good post material too
#15
Interocitor Command
As with anything else, it's easy if you know how to do it and have the proper tools. If not there will be a learning curve and possibly some mistakes made.
I suggest practicing braking down and reassembling an older bike first.
I suggest practicing braking down and reassembling an older bike first.
#16
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Thanks for the great advise both for and against the idea!
I'm thinking a good starting project would be to take apart and put together my existing bike. Do you agree? I can do that without too much trouble then that's a good indication I can put together a bike from scratch?
So for the task of taking apart and putting a bike together can anyone point to a solid guide (I found some using google but wanted people's opinions).
Thanks again.
I'm thinking a good starting project would be to take apart and put together my existing bike. Do you agree? I can do that without too much trouble then that's a good indication I can put together a bike from scratch?
So for the task of taking apart and putting a bike together can anyone point to a solid guide (I found some using google but wanted people's opinions).
Thanks again.
Regarding your current ride - providing us with a bunch of close up picture will help us identify the tools you need for a safe disassembly and reassembly.
Headset press and crown race installation tools are easy. If the frame needs to be faced and/or chased before assembly - those are $$$.
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Best way to get exactly what you want, but as has been mentioned you do need to know what you want.
As to the cost factor, when you figure in replacing the throw-away parts new bikes always come with to allow the manufacturer to keep the price competitive (like a BS bottom bracket or seat post) or upgrading a wheelset the delta gets smaller.
Personally, I think eBay was made just for bike builders. I have found so many NOS and like-new parts at amazing prices, and if a part turns out to not be right (like a stem that is too short or long) I can turn around and re-sell it (try that with your LBS!).
I also like knowing that I won't see people coming and going on bikes like mine.
Lastly, when you build your own bike you know that bike inside and out, so maintenance and repairs are vastly less worrisome.
Just my tuppence...
As to the cost factor, when you figure in replacing the throw-away parts new bikes always come with to allow the manufacturer to keep the price competitive (like a BS bottom bracket or seat post) or upgrading a wheelset the delta gets smaller.
Personally, I think eBay was made just for bike builders. I have found so many NOS and like-new parts at amazing prices, and if a part turns out to not be right (like a stem that is too short or long) I can turn around and re-sell it (try that with your LBS!).
I also like knowing that I won't see people coming and going on bikes like mine.
Lastly, when you build your own bike you know that bike inside and out, so maintenance and repairs are vastly less worrisome.
Just my tuppence...
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#18
Constant tinkerer
I think this is a great idea. Better yet, get yourself and old road bike and give it a complete overhaul down to the bare frame (99.9% of old road bikes out there need this service.) You won't have to worry about parts compatibility and you'll learn just as much in the process.
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With respect, Jake, s/he won't learn quite as much. Understanding the compatibility / size / standard issues seems to be about half the battle if planning to work on modern bikes later!
I built up my Mr Pink from scratch, and figuring out what I needed (all the way down to spoke lengths etc) was about as much of a challenge as any of the 'wrench-in-hand' tasks I did.
I built up my Mr Pink from scratch, and figuring out what I needed (all the way down to spoke lengths etc) was about as much of a challenge as any of the 'wrench-in-hand' tasks I did.
#20
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
I can't agree at all. The learning process itself can be very rewarding for the right person. Making mistakes, undoing, then redoing it correctly is a fantastic educator. With a relaxed attitude, those things are not a big deal. If someone is methodical in their research they can avoid most, if not all of those pitfalls anyway. All it takes is an attitude of, "Let me double check that measurement before I buy the part."
Way back when I wanted to build my first pair of wheels, I read Sheldon's excellent wheelbuilding instructions. I read them twice in an attempt to let the information settle in. I still didn't feel solid so I let the info brew and I read the instructions and closely examined the drawings a couple more times the next day. Then I measured, calculated, and ordered the spokes. While they were en route, I read the instructions a few more times. A few days later when I started lacing them I felt like I knew what I was doing. I learned a few tricks along the way, but my first pair came out perfect and have been bulltproof ever since. Zero frustration. I'm not bragging about my ability, I'm crediting Sheldon's ability to write instructions that are CLEAR, simple, and most importantly for the newbie, perfectly sequenced.
Way back when I wanted to build my first pair of wheels, I read Sheldon's excellent wheelbuilding instructions. I read them twice in an attempt to let the information settle in. I still didn't feel solid so I let the info brew and I read the instructions and closely examined the drawings a couple more times the next day. Then I measured, calculated, and ordered the spokes. While they were en route, I read the instructions a few more times. A few days later when I started lacing them I felt like I knew what I was doing. I learned a few tricks along the way, but my first pair came out perfect and have been bulltproof ever since. Zero frustration. I'm not bragging about my ability, I'm crediting Sheldon's ability to write instructions that are CLEAR, simple, and most importantly for the newbie, perfectly sequenced.
#21
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
I'm thinking a good starting project would be to take apart and put together my existing bike. Do you agree? I can do that without too much trouble then that's a good indication I can put together a bike from scratch?
So for the task of taking apart and putting a bike together can anyone point to a solid guide (I found some using google but wanted people's opinions).
Thanks again.
Sheldon Brown's website and Park Tool have great instructions.
#22
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
#23
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You can make a headset press for a couple dollars from common items at the hardware store. One large long bolt, one nut, and a few washers. Done.
You can make a crown race tool the same way. A piece of pipe the correct ID. Oh, and a hammer.
If you have ANY mechanical inclination at all, building a bike can be as simple as reading instructions written by a savvy mechanic (Sheldon Brown) and getting busy. You mentioned that you have patience. I bet you'd be fine.
Building your own custom bike costs more, but it comes out exactly as you dreamed it would, and it's very very rewarding. Both the bike and the building process.
You can make a crown race tool the same way. A piece of pipe the correct ID. Oh, and a hammer.
If you have ANY mechanical inclination at all, building a bike can be as simple as reading instructions written by a savvy mechanic (Sheldon Brown) and getting busy. You mentioned that you have patience. I bet you'd be fine.
Building your own custom bike costs more, but it comes out exactly as you dreamed it would, and it's very very rewarding. Both the bike and the building process.
It has been my experience that most of us a in too much of a hurry to get it done....take your time and enjoy the process, yes there will be set backs but that is the "enjoyment" and in the end you will have learned much and can go about building another bike of your dreams.
Are you planning on a new or vintage frame? Perhaps as some have mentioned by a parts bike to break down in order to understand more about the process....good luck!
JM2C, Ben
WHEN I WAS YOUNGER I RODE FASTER AND FARTHER...TODAY I ENJOY THE JOURNEY
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Last winter, I built up a hardtail mountain bike from scratch, and it turned out to be an excellent bike and a fun project. This was my first build project - frame from eBay, groupset from an internet company, wheels built by a wheel company, and various other parts sourced from all over - virtually everything was new, with the exception of the fork. But there are some caveats to doing your own build, and most of them have been already covered. I ended up buying a bike stand (Park Tool PCS-10) and a few tools that I didn't already have. I also had unlimited access to the head mechanic at a shop, and that was the most important thing in the whole process. I could figure out just about everything else by asking questions here or searching the 'net, but when it came to headsets and bottom brackets (two of the most important components), I really leaned on the mechanic - he actually let me use his tools and looked over my shoulder as I did those components. One of the areas that was the most vague was the sequence in which a lot of the overall steps should be done, and the mechanic helped with that, too. The key is to go very slowly and do a lot of research before you tackle a specific part of the build (like installing and bleeding hydraulic disc brakes). Beyond those types of things, the build went really well and the bike turned out great! Definitely worth the effort.
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Economically, it only really makes sense if you're getting a custom frame or a bike only available as a frame. Practically, if you've done much work on your own bikes, you can probably handle the build, with the exceptions already noted of facing the BB shell and head tube and press fittings. It's not so much choosing the right group for the frame as getting the right pieces within the group that fit your frame. I'd do that on ebay if looking for NOS, although there are some online stores still carrying NOS items. It's at this point that you have to have a clear idea what you want to build, whether a state of the art road bike with the latest 11 spd stuff, or pick out a NOS group from the past that you always wanted (and that has a good history). Personally, I wouldn't do it for a 105 build— much cheaper to buy that level bike from a store already built. Ultegra, Dura Ace, etc level components would better match the quality of a custom/semi-custom frame, although apparently (according to BF members) DA 7900 sucks (IDK, I don't mess with anything after 9 spd, and had to be dragged kicking and screaming to get that far )
Last edited by Cross Creek; 07-10-15 at 03:47 PM.