broken dropout, old steel frame - worth repairing?
 

My 1986 Trek just went ka-blammo on my commute home. Was shifting into the big ring and suddenly the chain was free floating...I pulled over and found this:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=468174

It looks like it sheared off at the point midway through the horizontal dropouts, where the little adjustment screw is; you can see the threads of the screw hole in the second, upside down view:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=468175http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=468176

I've gotten 10 years and at least 12000 miles out of this bike, so no complaints, especially since it happened fairly close to home and I didn't go down under a bus or cab.

Now, the question is what do i do for a new commuter? This is a bike I leave locked up on a Manhattan street m-f, and I purposely leave the paint, bar tape and saddle in as nasty appearance as possible to deter theft. Meaning, I am not really interested in buying a shiny new bike for daily street lock up. I have two nicer road bikes but again, they would either be stolen rather quickly or the thin-walled frames would get destroyed from my 10,000 pound lock (not to mention everyone else's locks on the other side of the rack/sign/post I am locked to).

My thoughts are, I could:

1. have this repaired - it's doable, no? I'm in NYC so I imagine there must be a good amount of people who can fix frames...I'd just rather not pay more than, say, $50-75...I am not sentimentally attached to this bike, and I don't care about the aesthetics (the paint is already kinda trashed), I just need a structurally sound bike that shifts well (I would love to just buy a cheap SS but my old man knees need a low gear for the daily bridge crossings). It seems this repair would be the easiest fix, providing the cost is not too much. My main worry here would be either botched hack repair job, or something else snapping soon on this 30 year old steel frame (with 1" threaded forks, and other obsolescence) that runs over potholes and sits out in the rain etc.

2. buy a budget frame from Nashbar or Performance and move over the parts...I've upgraded the original 6-speed freewheel and friction DT shifters to a indexed 9-speed with a mtb rapidfire shifter frankensteined onto the handlebars, and I also use a modern threadless stem on a quill adapter. So pretty everything should be a direct swap as far as I can see... That option would cost roughly $450ish, I reckon, after having a shop finish whatever assembly I can't do myself. But it would be a new frame. Flashy, but hardly a major theft magnet, and a fairly small investment to risk.

3. Chuck it and buy a new commuting bike. I need drop bars (hand injury makes flat bars a problem) and I'd prefer 9-speed as a minimum, but nothing too flashy for theft. That makes a lot of entry level racers (Specialized Allez sport, Cannondale CAAD 8, et al) a question mark for street lock up duty, at a cost of $900 or so.

Any advice on the viability of repair, names of good shops in my area, and guidance towards a sane decision regarding best choice of options is welcome.

4) Buy an older but good condition used bike on Craigslist, etc. This is my default choice.

Either use it as-is or swap your newer/better parts over.

That is not an uncommon failure, had the same thing on a well used Pinarello with Campy DS drop. If swapping over to another frame is a labor of love I would do that, if not I would think you could get a non-matching repair done for less than a $100 and have more "anti-theft patina".

Big issues with the replacement of the drop out is that Trek used unique drop outs. The stay ends and drop out arrangement will be hard to find in other then with another Trek drop out. Depending on the replacement drop out used it might be easier to replace both drop outs to maintain frame alignment. I would certainly consider repair as these frames are pretty nice, IMO. But then my labor is free to myself. As for cost I would expect $100+ just for the labor, the drop outs and/or paint will add to this. The other detail is the cable routing through the chain stay and the drop out/stay socket. Expect to go to out of frame routing. Maybe a small bit more $ to do this. Andy.

I agree, it's a good plan - I had actually already been trolling the CL ads for an extra back-up commuter to have in these cases. I used to have a second commuter (MTB) but sold it b/c of the flat handlebar pain issues. The one problem with this is that in NYC, people are asking stupid money for old 1980s road bikes. Like $500 for a middle of the road, nothing special 12-speed. If it's 531 like mine with decent components, they ask even more. Comes with the territory, alas.

LOL That was my thought also. The bike was still pristine looking until last year when it became my primary commuter. I've done some ugly clear coat dabs over the bare paint spots to keep rust at bay and uglify it at the same time.

Thanks for this, Andrew - my very first thought was that it would be a nightmare to replace one or both of these unique trek dropouts...but upon getting the bike home and inspecting more carefully, and seeing it's basically a mid-dropout break, can't someone just weld the broken dropout back together? I've read accounts where this was done successfully and the welder even filled in that threaded screw groove to make the repair stronger than the original.

I'd find a local custom builder see how much for the fix. Or a fix -- might be cheaper if aesthetics are not an issue, d/o doesn't have to be matchy-matchy or original. But in my head, considering your other options, I'd do it for anything less than $150 or so. If pretty much everything else on the frame is basically OK.

Otherwise, cheap steel frameset of the same era off ebay, swap parts over.

The best and least costly repairs of this kind are properly made TiG welds done by experienced welders. It requires preparing the joint to provide room for a properly filled weld. This won't be as good a repair as replacing the dropout, but it will generally be less expensive. I prefer to visit Sport/racing MC shops for this kind of work because I tend to find them less snooty and more skilled.

Ask around, consider the options and make a decision. Also think about what buying some more time (not forever) on this frame vs. replacing now.

The other alternative is to replace the bike, and refit this as a single speed or IGH as a B bike. So worst case, it's not scrap metal yet.

I'd have it repaired. Talk to Johnny Coast in Brooklyn, he does great work: Beautiful, classic, true to the process. | Coast Cycles

Alternately, I think you could just use a claw for your derailleur like this:
http://www.redclovercomponents.com/u...1396031233.png

Someone correct me if that's not possible.

Thanks - yes, aesthetics are totally irrelevant for me here. I hear you on the $150ish being reasonable...tho I'm thinking more like $100 might be my max. If it weren't for the need to street lock, I'd have already given up on this one and ridden in on my fancy bike today. (God, I hate mass transit...) I'm going to ask my LBS today if he has a spare old frame in my size that would work for swapping over parts, when inquiring about the weld.

Thanks - are you saying the mid-dropout mend is more likely to re-break than a proper replacement set of dropouts? And is there anything I should do to prep the joint (eg, sand off paint around the area)?

If I give up and get a new frame, I figured I'd put this up on CL (with full disclosure, obviously, and pics), in the hopes someone might want to take on the project and give it new life. It's a small frame with 165mm cranks, so it'd make a nice SS or even a fixie (perfect time to graft on rear dropouts). It'd be more important to me to see someone else enjoying the nice ride of the bike than getting the $25 or whatever it'd fetch as is.

Thanks, I'm checking their site now.

Not sure if there's enough meat left on there to put the claw hanger on...if there is, the first hard shift would likely rip off the RD, imo.

BTW, what size frame do you ride...?

You dont have enough dropout left . the bottom half is Gone it broke Off

& Trek had a Whole batch of those Dropouts made just to order .

so I'd ask at a Trek Dealer who will ask up the chain of supply. if they even have any extras from that long ago production run .

look for a Cheap Nashbar Chinese frame and take yours strip it .

+ NB chrome plated steel is toxic to braze or weld on.

This one had worked really well for me, I'm 5'8" but have a teeny 28-29" inseam. It's a 19" (47.5cm) frame, but has a 53.6 cm top tube - perfect. Low standover, long reach. Even so, I have like a 120mm stem on there.

I'll probably have to go with a 50 or 51 in a new cheapo frame, base don what I am seeing online.

Do you mean to even repair it? Fwiw, the other half is still bolted to the rear derailleur. I searched on BF and saw old threads with the same sort of break along the line where the adjustment screws were placed. Just wasn't sure what the current rate was for these sorts of repairs. Based on what you guys are saying and what I've seen before, I would love it to be TIG welded by a frame builder. It might just be that the cost is prohibitive for me...

Have you considered asking Trek if they have a new OS dropout lying around? If so, having a framebuilder replace the broken one would be straightforward and as good as new. Still, I would expect a decent framebuilder to charge ~$100+ for removing the old one. doing the cleanup and prep and brazing the new. It sounds to me like several hours of work.

I'd do it if I liked the ride. I discovered cracks in the chainstay caps of my '83 Trek which had been a fix gear commuter for me. I paid a local who is very good ~$200 for the repair, then roughly the same for a powdercoat paint job (and a little more for seat tube WB bosses). So I paid ~$450 for a frame I picked up for $80. But as an investment in one of my primary rides, totally worth it!

Ben

Your are Boned ! .. It aint a $100 job , get another Bike .

And .. the shifter cable thru the chainstay is Not a common way to build frames .

Thanks Ben

I'm kinda torn, I love old bikes but at my age I've had my fun of refurbishing and frankensteining and so forth. I'm kinda at the place of having limited years of spirited riding left and so I'm more inclined to move away from the vintagey smooth rides towards the crisper new bikes. But i totally get what you're saying; I picked this bike up for $200 on CL ten years ago, and at one point had close to $2k in upgrades and whatnot into it. When I started locking it up outside, off came the Brooks and the clipless and so on, and thus lowered my overall investment.

I kinda have been getting the same feeling looking at all the other older steel bikes on CL and ebay. They're beautiful and I know they have a nice ride. But for me, it feels like a step backwards right now.

If I can't fix this safely, and cheaply as some of you seem to be saying, I may just have to suck it up and get something modern/flashy/fragile and just suck it up and lock it up and deal with the inevitable fallout.

Btw, I was fortunate in that for the majority of the last 30 years I've been able to bring my bikes inside my workplace. That is such a Godsend. Locking up on the street sucks.

It's also why I would always let a shop replace that bike's RD cable! :twitchy:

+1
I've seen it done successfully; it only takes derailleur reactions and axle clamping loads. Careful surface prep, filled epoxy, broken piece and claw adapter clamped into the correct position. . . Was intended to be temporary but lasted for years.

I think I'd try the tig welding of the dropout.

As far as prep work. Remove the derailleur and rear cable/housing. You could wire brush the joint and remove 100% of the paint and grime within 2" or so from the weld, but the shop will probably do it if you're not doing the welding yourself.

That is thick enough that it should be welded with a V-Groove, but that is prep work the shop should do.

How wide is it? 126mm? 130mm? It might not hurt to get an old solid axle set to the exact spacing desired for clamping, but the shop should be able to clamp the work like they want it for the weld.

I suppose another option would be to hunt for an old Trek frame with the same dropout, but worse damage than what you have.

Bummer -- I have a larger frame I could have sent. Anyway, good luck!

Y'know, there's some guy on BF who used to braze for Trek -- maybe post to C&V or Framebuilder subforum for advice?

It should have been 126mm - I bought it in barely used condition with the original 6-speed freewheel...but when I decided to try spreading the rear for my 9 speed 130mm hub, I didn't have to, it basically was sprung wide enough already. I seriously doubt anyone ever had tried that before on this bike (it looked like it had been ridden a few times, then stored for years), so no idea why that was the case...



Thanks so much, that's very kind of you! And I'll check on there.

Cold setting is probably ok. However, poor dropout alignment could cause stress... perhaps I should start checking my dropout alignments. :P

But, I'd probably chalk this up as a fluke.

Does your dropout have the adjustment screw? I've heard that is a point of weakness. Welding it, you will probably loose that screw. If it is a newer bike (as opposed to really old), it should have short dropouts, and probably doesn't need the adjustment screw anyway.

No, the dropout broke at the adjuster bolt hole, so the entire bottom half of the dropout is missing.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...5&d=1438339801

TIG weld is probably the fastest and cheapest fix.

@JohnDThompson - Do you resemble that remark! :)