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How well do the older glued carbon tubes into aluminum lugs frames ride?

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How well do the older glued carbon tubes into aluminum lugs frames ride?

Old 04-16-20, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by avecReynolds531
This is my road bike: an Opera Leonardo, from the early 2000s (the bb is stamped 00).
Great looking bike. Very cool to have a "00" frame. You have a license to kill, I guess. Love the picture in front of the map of France.
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Old 04-16-20, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz
Well, Andy, at least your body still has some steel in it. Jim (who rides CF mostly, but also enjoys his 1999 LeMond Zurich in 853).

Alas, I got no more steel.
Last winter I got SS reinforced toes. I will never completely be without some steel, even when I'm in the ground. Andy
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Old 04-16-20, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Litespud
Sean Kelly raced and won on cobbles on a glued Vitus. If itís good enough for The King.....
... unfortunately, everyone remembers that episode of Gilligan's Island where they tried to glue the SS Minnow back together, with disastrous results.
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Old 04-16-20, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
Last winter I got SS reinforced toes. I will never completely be without some steel, even when I'm in the ground. Andy
I remember a comedian on TV, bragging about how tough his neighborhood was. "Most kids, they played kick the can. We played kick the brick!".

Hey! We can start a whole new thread arguing about materials of toe construction! Titanium! Stainless! Ceramic!
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Old 04-17-20, 07:15 AM
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I had a Giant CFR1 back in the day, size 57. Weighed 900g, bit of a noodle, taught me to spin. The top end of the seat tube broke its bond with the seat cluster, but it didn't seem to make a difference.

Titanium wrist here.
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Old 04-18-20, 08:28 PM
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The bikes rode fine, but there were too issues, first off they weren't any lighter than a high end steel bike back when those lugged CF bikes came out; the other issue was that some of the companies had problems with the first 3 to 4 years where the epoxy holding the AL lug to the CF tube would not hold well; so you have to be careful if you're buying one used.
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Old 05-11-21, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by avecReynolds531


This is my road bike: an Opera Leonardo, from the early 2000s (the bb is stamped 00). Carbon main tubes and wishbone chainstays with alu lugs, chainstays and head tube.
It's a small frame (49cm), I've only seen one other like this, and I'm very happy with the comfort and acceleration. So far so good with longevity!
that's a pretty little thing
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Old 05-11-21, 08:55 PM
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I had a Vitus Carbonne 9 with full Campy C Record Gen 1 Panto in about 1985 or maybe early 1986. GL330 rims. Good tubulars. Aluminum FW, 13-21. Cinelli 66-42. 1R stem. 18 pounds if I remember. It was a very comfortable ride especially long rides. The fork was aluminum, I think. The glue lasted about 5 years. The seatpost broke on a ride and I got hurt pretty good. I stripped off the Campy and thru the frame into a dumpster.
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Old 05-11-21, 08:59 PM
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When I was in college, (late 1980's to early 1990's), Cherry Bicycles, (Lafayette IN), had a carbon-tube/aluminum-lug frame hanging on the wall. The downtube was pulled out of the bottom-bracket lug. The story was the bike's owner was riding it down a fast hill, hit a railroad crossing, and suddenly the top tube was the sole connection between the two halves of the bike.

I don't recall the brand of the frame.
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Old 05-11-21, 09:00 PM
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Oh, I bought a Kestral 200 EMS next with first gen Dura Ace STI. 1992?? About the same weight as the Vitus but much, much stiffer and actually a pretty decent criterium bike. I did a bunch of double centuries, brevets, and PBP on it. Probably used 19 mm clinchers on it. It did not have the comfort nor the same comfortable all day geometry as the Vitus. I still have it but never ride it.
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Old 05-11-21, 09:45 PM
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Even though this is a zombie thread, I’m in the process of overhauling and early 90’s Specialized Allez Epic; 7 speed 105. Our son traded for it a number of years ago, and it was time to get everything tuned up and greased for him to ride in a month when he comes out.

It is way too big for me so that might have some influence, but it has to be one of the harshest bikes I’ve ridden. And this is from someone with 35 years on Cannondales. I don’t know if it is the aluminum fork, my Cannondales have steel, or ???, but it is just not that much fun to ride.

John
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Old 05-11-21, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO
Even though this is a zombie thread, Iím in the process of overhauling and early 90ís Specialized Allez Epic; 7 speed 105. Our son traded for it a number of years ago, and it was time to get everything tuned up and greased for him to ride in a month when he comes out.

It is way too big for me so that might have some influence, but it has to be one of the harshest bikes Iíve ridden. And this is from someone with 35 years on Cannondales. I donít know if it is the aluminum fork, my Cannondales have steel, or ???, but it is just not that much fun to ride.

John
John- Interesting that you have this impression of the Epic's ride quality. Especially with the Cannondale reference. Most all riders I know of would have said the opposite. I wonder if the fit/positioning was pretty different. Andy
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Old 05-11-21, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
John- Interesting that you have this impression of the Epic's ride quality. Especially with the Cannondale reference. Most all riders I know of would have said the opposite. I wonder if the fit/positioning was pretty different. Andy
I ride a 56cm which was always a bit big for me, and the Epic is a 60cm which is enormous.

The original Wolbers are too far out and I understand the rear wheel had been tweaked and with 25ís it was a bit too harsh. I had a pretty much unused Alex set that I swapped out from my wifeís bike after a couple rides. We both hated those wheels and being aero, they give a harsher ride. Iím going to see if I can squeeze 28ís on them to cut some of the edge.

John
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Old 05-12-21, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
John- Interesting that you have this impression of the Epic's ride quality. Especially with the Cannondale reference. Most all riders I know of would have said the opposite. I wonder if the fit/positioning was pretty different. Andy
If, as John says, his correct frame size is 55 cm or smaller, fit/positioning would likely account for the majority of the perceived differences in ride quality between his 56-cm bike(s) and a 60-cm bike.

An engineer/bike racer who has done a series of videos aimed at demystifying bicycle technology has one where he presented a pie chart displaying the relative contributions of various factors to shock absorption.

Tires took up almost 2/3 of the pie chart. Seatposts, surprisingly, were the next most significant factor (although the fact that he was measuring a current high-end road bike with a long seatpost probably skewed that conclusion).

Beyond those two, the other factors were shown to contribute to comfort in dwindling amounts, with choice of frame material representing a comparatively tiny sliver.

That definitely corroborates my experience of riding racing bikes over the last 55 years or so. All my bikes with my preferred wheelbase (just under 98 mm for a 54-cm frame size), including aluminum, steel, and carbon bikes, ride the same with respect to comfort. But my bikes with a shorter or longer wheelbase (e.g., my track bike with sprint geometry and a wheelbase under 96 mm and my sport touring bike with a wheelbase of 105 mm) ride very differently.

To put it another way, same wheelbase, different frame materials: no difference; different wheelbases, same or different frame materials: big difference.
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Old 05-12-21, 07:14 AM
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I also suspect the fit between the two vastly different sized bikes accounts for some of the ability to handle the road's undulations/bumps. Had I known the fuller story my reply would have been more detailed. Like Click and Clack would have said, John is guilty of withholding information Of course this is pretty much the standard on this, and many, forums. Andy
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Old 05-12-21, 09:35 AM
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In my initial post I did state that the Allez Epic was way too big for me, but I didn’t give specific sizes. I have ridden my brothers Soma San Marcos, which is also big, (I think 57 or 58), so not as much as the Allez, but it rides like a dream.

I’m not an engineer. My impression over the years was a smaller frame with a shorter wheelbase was generally more rigid.

In the end, a 126mm dropout lugged carbon frame is probably close to the bottom of the collectibility food chain that it is of little consequence. I wasn’t trying to debate, it was just an observation.

John
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Old 05-23-21, 09:42 PM
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I wanted to follow-up with a tire change and more miles. The 25c tires on the Allez Epic actually measured less than 21mm inflated to 100psi. I swapped them out for some other 25c’s that measured a little over 23mm inflated.

When I finished the bearing maintenance, STI conversion, RD, cassette, chain and brakes, I took it out on a real ride with the wider tires.

In all honesty it is not harsher than my Cannondale. But it is a stiff frame and you do feel the bumps. The large frame might contribute to it, but I still think the aluminum fork doesn’t dampen things enough.

John
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Old 06-22-21, 03:42 PM
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Final update. Swapped out the horrible Alex wheels for a set of Open Pro’s with 105 5700 hubs. Same tires now measure a little under 25mm.

Bike does ride nicer. It is stiff, but not as harsh as with old wheels and skinny tires.

John
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Old 09-25-23, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO
Even though this is a zombie thread, Iím in the process of overhauling and early 90ís Specialized Allez Epic; 7 speed 105. Our son traded for it a number of years ago, and it was time to get everything tuned up and greased for him to ride in a month when he comes out.

It is way too big for me so that might have some influence, but it has to be one of the harshest bikes Iíve ridden. And this is from someone with 35 years on Cannondales. I donít know if it is the aluminum fork, my Cannondales have steel, or ???, but it is just not that much fun to ride.

John
I ride the equivalent Miyata 7000, and it is certainly the harshest ride I have ever ridden. I ride it a ton, but I'm now 65 and my spine, hands, neck, brain, wrists need something gentler so I'll be selling it. I must say I got a ton of great riding out of that Miyata.
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Old 09-26-23, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk
As a guy who works with Carpet Fiber every day, any creaking is a joint about to fail.
I have fond memories of cutting classs and working on Carpet Fiber with my HS steady...
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