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What's with my tires********************??

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What's with my tires********************??

Old 10-08-15, 07:07 AM
  #1  
okane
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What's with my tires********************??

In a previous post [http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...d-anyone.html]

I showed a rear Cheng Shin red tire (see pic) that developed a bubble after only 200 miles. I was using fenders and the wheel turned freely on the stand with no fender contact (although it appeared close at the brake bridge)

Here’s the story:

First 200 miles trouble free, then a flat, fixed tube and remounted wheel/tire. Fifty miles later big bubble develops. Drat, must be a bad tire but I had a spare new one so I mounted that on the front and moved the front to the rear.

Thirty miles later another bubble just like the first one. What the ???? I had checked carefully before mounting to make sure there was no contact between fender and tire.

Not wanting to spend any more time on this issue, not having any more red tires, and trying to get in as many miles as possible during the fine fall weather, I removed the fenders and mounted a pair of Kenda high pressure tires.

Twenty five miles later……see the pic!

Now I know these are cheap tires, but I have used Cheng Shin and Kendas before and ran them with 90 psi with no problems. The wheels are also not top of the line but they are not junk either and they run true and make no noises when riding.

Am I just unlucky, getting 3 bad tires in a row? Why 200 trouble free miles then problems? Why only on the rear? They are on a bike I only ride short distances about 5-10 times a month.

What am I doing wrong?
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Old 10-08-15, 07:39 AM
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Bad luck. Spend a bit more for better tires.
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Old 10-08-15, 07:39 AM
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Both tires look to have classic casing cord damage. Often because of impacts on things like rocks, curbs or potholes. Image 1, red tire, is less common a type of casing failure but I do see this sometimes. Image 2 is far more common. Without seeing your riding the bike at the moment of impact I'd say you didn't look where your tires were rolling. Avoidence skills are the best was to deal with a potential issue. Both with people and with tires. Andy.
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Old 10-08-15, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
Bad luck. Spend a bit more for better tires.
+1

I've seen weird failures like this from cheap tires before. Get something a little better next time.

Last edited by FastJake; 10-08-15 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 10-08-15, 08:45 AM
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They're just tired.
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Old 10-08-15, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Both tires look to have classic casing cord damage. ......
+1 with an added comment

The cord damage could of occurred before you received the tires if someone folded them incorrectly, or just shoved a whole mess in the box in China for export, or ......

It is annoying, but rideable for quite awhile.

I have had similar, with no apparent cause.
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Old 10-08-15, 10:41 AM
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I ride practically nothing but Cheng Shin and Kenda, because that is what is available here. The only times I've had this problem was with a pair of Vee Rubber tires that somebody sent me because the Vittorias were out of stock. One of them went after hitting a largish stone at 10 mph, and the other for no reason at all at maybe 15 mph. I have hundreds of miles on both those brands of tires, so maybe nfmisso is correct in his guess.
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Old 10-09-15, 07:27 AM
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Thanks for the input, but.....

Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Both tires look to have classic casing cord damage. Often because of impacts on things like rocks, curbs or potholes. Image 1, red tire, is less common a type of casing failure but I do see this sometimes. Image 2 is far more common. Without seeing your riding the bike at the moment of impact I'd say you didn't look where your tires were rolling. Avoidence skills are the best was to deal with a potential issue. Both with people and with tires. Andy.
Originally Posted by FastJake View Post
+1

I've seen weird failures like this from cheap tires before. Get something a little better next time.
Originally Posted by nfmisso View Post
+1 with an added comment

The cord damage could of occurred before you received the tires if someone folded them incorrectly, or just shoved a whole mess in the box in China for export, or ......

It is annoying, but rideable for quite awhile.

I have had similar, with no apparent cause.
Originally Posted by seedsbelize View Post
I ride practically nothing but Cheng Shin and Kenda, because that is what is available here. The only times I've had this problem was with a pair of Vee Rubber tires that somebody sent me because the Vittorias were out of stock. One of them went after hitting a largish stone at 10 mph, and the other for no reason at all at maybe 15 mph. I have hundreds of miles on both those brands of tires, so maybe nfmisso is correct in his guess.
I ride almost entirely in a residential area where the roads are very clean, i.e., very little road debris, and would instantly notice if I hit a rock or something bigger than a pebble. And our curbs are the "sloping" type that "roll" upwards to meet the property so no 90 degree bend that I could hit or bounce off of.

The red tires were a mail order purchase but came unfolded in a tire size box, the Kenda from a local lbs.

What is so frustrating is that I have used both brands for many years without a problem, and for the first 200 miles everything was find, then badda bing, 1,2,3. I have a lot (too many) bikes and I enjoy riding them all so no one bike gets a lot of miles. Most see about 200 miles per year and buying better tires could get real expensive real quick although replacing cheap tires every 50 miles is more expensive.

I'm hoping is just an incredible run of tire bad luck. I remember reading something about poeple recommending a Panaracer tire for 27" wheels but the are about 2-3 times the cost of a Kenda.

Are they worth it?

By the way, I did take a short 5 mile ride on the Kenda. Ruduced pressure to about 65 psi and kept me speed down to about 10-12 mph. Feels a big squiggly but doable since it on the rear.

Last edited by okane; 10-09-15 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 10-09-15, 07:34 AM
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Panaracers are quite well made tires. Much more supple in their construction then the heavier gum side walled Kendas and the ilk. They also are available in a Kevlar belted version offering greater penetration resistance then the basic version. Some will say that the tread cap wears quicker then other brands. I do recommend them.

Conti also makes a good grade of 27x1.125" tire. We sell it as our better offering (Kendas being the cheepy). I suspect that the contis have a slightly stronger casing (Kevlar belt not included) then the Panaracers have. But either are a step up in ride quality compared to the cheepies. Andy.
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Old 10-09-15, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Panaracers are quite well made tires. Much more supple in their construction then the heavier gum side walled Kendas and the ilk. They also are available in a Kevlar belted version offering greater penetration resistance then the basic version. Some will say that the tread cap wears quicker then other brands. I do recommend them.

Conti also makes a good grade of 27x1.125" tire. We sell it as our better offering (Kendas being the cheepy). I suspect that the contis have a slightly stronger casing (Kevlar belt not included) then the Panaracers have. But either are a step up in ride quality compared to the cheepies. Andy.
Not to be the contrarian, but I have had bad luck with both these tires, the kevlar ones in particular. I have found no indication that they are less prone to flats than any other tire I've used. I know lots of folks sing their praises, so maybe my experience is just that; bad luck. I've had nothing but good experiences with Cheng Shin and Kenda, though they might not last as long as some of the others. I will say this; the non-kevlar Paselas give a very nice ride, and seem to hold up well.
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Old 10-09-15, 11:06 AM
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Re photo 2: It's not possible to tell from the angle but I can't help but wonder if the bead was properly set.
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Old 10-09-15, 12:13 PM
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Ply threads in the casing came apart.
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Old 10-09-15, 03:02 PM
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Stop using Cheng Shin and get some tires made by CST.
...not serious.

$22/tire will get you options much lighter and with 'flat protection' compared to $15 Kendas.

That's some seriously rough luck you have. Hope it changes soon-.
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Old 10-10-15, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by on the path View Post
Re photo 2: It's not possible to tell from the angle but I can't help but wonder if the bead was properly set.
First thing I checked when bubble occurred.....perfectly seated all around the rim.
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Old 10-10-15, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Stop using Cheng Shin and get some tires made by CST.
...not serious.

$22/tire will get you options much lighter and with 'flat protection' compared to $15 Kendas.

That's some seriously rough luck you have. Hope it changes soon-.
Me TOO!
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Old 10-10-15, 05:30 AM
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Lower TPI = Lower max PSI
Higher TPI = Higher max PSI

Cord failure is much higher in low TPI tires.

******
EDIT: One HUGE thing you can do to improve lifespan of your tire's casing? Do not let it sit with >100PSI between rides, especially if there's multiple days between rides. After you're done riding, let a little air out so they drop down to around 40-60. This will prevent the casing from 'stretching out' under constant pressure.

Last edited by Jamminatrix; 10-10-15 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 02-17-16, 04:55 AM
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Here we go AGAIN!!!!!!!!

Wheeled the bike out for a ride last week and look what I found! Another friggin cord separation tire! (see my op)

This was on a different bike, different size tire, and purchased from a different LBS! Tire about 9 months old, approx 900 miles. I forget what model Kenda tire cause I was so angry I stuck it in the trash that was being picked up that day!

Tire always kept good pressure which I kept about 5 lbs under max stated on tire. I have 3 tire pressure gauges (Park, Zefel, generic) and they all read about the same whenever I've checked them for comparison)

I weigh 190 lbs. I didn't run over anything, jump a curb, hit a deer, or curse the bicycle gods in any way. Up until this happened I noticed no abnormalities, not even a flat.

Bike kept in unheated but attached garage so not exposed to temperature extremes except when I winter ride in 20-30 degree temps (which is really not extreme).

This bike is no gravel grinder or high speed pursuit model.....a Breezer hybrid....so its for leisurely rides on local roads. (which I prefer to mups)

In the many years I have been riding this has never happened even when using cheap rubber purchased a wally world (many years ago), now it seems to be a regular occurrence.


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Old 02-17-16, 05:44 AM
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You really upset the tire gods !
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Old 02-17-16, 08:45 AM
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Either you got two tires with poor enough construction that in time their plys shifted inside the tire casing. Or you did ride over some sort of road hazard and it's distorting of the tire casing (which is why you might have not noticed it when it happened, the tire absorbed the blow) caused the damage. When it happens a third or fourth time the odds will grow that it's a road hazard issue. Andy.
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Old 02-17-16, 11:09 AM
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Do you use tire irons?
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Old 02-17-16, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamminatrix View Post

******
EDIT: One HUGE thing you can do to improve lifespan of your tire's casing? Do not let it sit with >100PSI between rides, especially if there's multiple days between rides. After you're done riding, let a little air out so they drop down to around 40-60. This will prevent the casing from 'stretching out' under constant pressure.
I think that's just old school superstition. Used to do this with my sew-ups, but there's a LOT of superstition with sew-ups. Didn't find any justification for doing this in the normal web places.
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Old 02-17-16, 04:08 PM
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Wow, every successive problem seems to decrease the possibility of bad luck, and increase the likelihood it's something about the way you ride, or the way you install your tires. I can't think of what it might be though.

You say it always happens in the rear -- is it always at the same spot on the rim/wheel?

Cheng Shin tires are all cheap (and crappy), in my opinion. I wouldn't take them for free.

Kenda is two different brands really; they make super-low-end cheap/crappy stuff ('competing' with Cheng Shin), and they also make high-end good stuff. For instance I have Kenda Small-Block Eight on two different mtb and they are great.

If you have a co-op nearby, go check and see if you can buy some high-quality used tires. I used to be able to buy good quality tires with 50+% tread life remaining for $5 each. Then you can test for yourself whether it's the tires or you. Or look maybe for used tires on eBay. Tons of barely-used and take-off tires for way cheaper then new prices.
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Old 02-17-16, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
If you have a co-op nearby, go check and see if you can buy some high-quality used tires. I used to be able to buy good quality tires with 50+% tread life remaining for $5 each. Then you can test for yourself whether it's the tires or you. Or look maybe for used tires on eBay. Tons of barely-used and take-off tires for way cheaper then new prices.
+1

Get a hold of a decent tire. Used is fine as long as it's not completely worn out or already has defects of its own.

If it doesn't fail like this, mystery solved (stop buying crappy tires.) If it fails the same way, you have more work to do. One thing at a time. I think you're continuing to get defective tires.
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