andr0id

Haha, then change it out at least every FIVE years!!

bikerbobbbb

Kind of leaning toward this Shimano one.

I'm not sure how many cogs my rear cassette has. Three cogs on the front one....
8 on the rear/cassette. Just counted.
And there's a pic here...
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...-myself-6.html
So it's a 24 speed. Although one of the bike shop guys said, "You're not supposed to use them all, just because it has them." I thought that was BS. Why did they make it and sell it as x-speed if you're not actually supposed to use them?

Shimano Altus HG40 6-7-8 Speed Chain | Chain Reaction Cycles
On removing links...
"You will have to see how it fits on the bike, a good rule of thumb is use the largest front chainring and the smallest rear sprocket and choose the number of links needed so that the rear derailleur points straight to the ground. This always works for me, hope it helps."

StanSeven

You likely have at least two gear combinations that shouldn't be used. The large chainring in front with the small gear in back stretches the chain at too much of an angle. It's called cross chaining. The same applies with the small chainring in front and large gear in back. You'll know if it doesn't work from the drivetrain noise.

A worn chain often causes excessive wear on your gears in back and chainring. After six years, they may be worn too. Replacing the chain may make everything worse. You could also cause a new chain to snap.

The best advise has already been given and that's go to a local bike store. Also so you use the proper terminology, cogs refer to the gears in back on the rear wheel or cassette. The gears in front are called chain rings.

bikerbobbbb

I'm not a big fan of my local bike shop. I'm pretty sure they ripped me off before, so I want to do as much as I can myself.

Any specific recommendations on chains?

I'm still looking at this one, but I'm not completely confident in it.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

If there are 8 cogs on the rear cassette... is that the 8 speed part chain specs mention?

Any recommendations on a chain tool for precisely driving in those center silver cross pieces on the chain links?

bikerbobbbb

cogs refer to the gears in back on the rear wheel or cassette. The gears in front are called chain rings.
Good. That's what I was looking for too.


I wonder why they bother making the bike like that if all the shifting combinations aren't supposed to be used.

habilis

Good: https://jet.com/product/detail/3c142...VBIaAgMu8P8HAQ

Better: Park Tool Mini Chain Brute Chain Tool - CT-5 | Backcountry.com

habilis

Draw this simple diagram of your drive train as seen form above (rider's view): Three parallel, vertical lines at the top of the page, spaced an inch apart. Eight parallel, vertical lines below that at the bottom of the page, also spaced an inch apart.

Draw a line connecting the smallest (left-most) chain ring to the smallest (right-most) cog. See the extreme angle of the line? It's an exaggerated picture, but you can see that this configuration causes strain and wear on the chain and the teeth of both the chain ring and the cog.

Moreover, this gear ratio is the same or nearly the same as ratios you would have with the middle chain ring and one of the middle cogs, but without damaging your drive train. If the manufacturer calls your bike a "24-speed", that's just a total count of the rings and cogs. It's generally understood that not all combinations are available for use.

Many combinations cause some degree of cross-chaining, which is okay. Just avoid extremes like the example I gave. Safe rule of thumb: Small chain ring for the left third of the cassette, middle ring for the middle third of the cassette, large ring for the right third of the cassette. (Three doesn't go into eight, but you get what I mean.)

If you've been cross-chaining regularly, it may explain severe wear on some of your drive train components, leading to the slippage you experience. Another thing to remember: pedal lightly while shifting, but WITHOUT PRESSURE! Shifting while the bike is under load also puts severe strain on components. You must, however, continue pedaling GENTLY while shifting so that the chain can climb onto a new chain ring or cog.

bikerbobbbb

Ok, so this is a purchase then (will be soon)...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=sr_1_1&sr=8-1
[h=1]Park Tool Mini Chain Brute Chain Tool - CT-5[/h]
And it sounds like I'll need to replace the rear cassette and front chain rings sometime. Two separate future projects I think.


I'm stuck on which chain though for now. I'm thinking I might get two and just have the second one as backup. I could alternate them but realistically I'll just replace it when it breaks again. Ditto for the cassette and chain rings.

bikerbobbbb

Jobst Brandt
The bicycle wheel
1983

That's the book to get?

habilis

If you wait till the chain (or anything else) breaks, you've waited w-a-a-y too long! Check periodically (every 100-200 miles) for chain stretch beyond 1/16" and clean/lubricate the chain at the same time. Chain rings and cassettes last longer than chains, but people say you need to replace those components after you've replaced the chain 3 or 4 times. It all depends on your shifting habits and your maintenance schedule.

habilis

It's good if you are planning to do wheel-building. If you just want to repair and true wheels, it may be overkill. There are many internet articles on wheel-truing and everything else about bikes. Browse through the Sheldon Brown site. It's fantastic.

Drew Eckhardt 

Your two larger rings are worn out because you didn't replace the chain before it elongated too much. Notice how the visible teeth look like they come from a Chinese throwing star, not a chainring like the inner ring teeth.

Cogs wear quicker than chain rings, so yours are probably worn out

habilis

Also, don't do what I sometimes do: forget to shift to a lower gear when I'm approaching a hill. If you try to shift while struggling up the hill, you're grinding metal off your drive train.

RPK79

Let this be a lesson that waiting until something breaks to replace it is not always the cheapest option.

bikerbobbbb

Yes, the one bike shop guy warned me twice that I was driving with it crossed and it would stretch the chain. But... (and timewise/schedulewise)... It got the bike to use it. I'm probably going to do the same with it after it's repaired. Use it, not baby it so much.

So new chain. Then new cassette and new chain rings. If I replace all three every six years or so, that can work.

For now, the chain is the next goal. I'm stuck on which chain I need. Or maybe it doesn't matter so much if it's an exact or perfect match.

For the rear cassette, I've got the hub tool, so it's probably just getting a replacement and swapping that in. That sounds doable.

For the chain rings... I think I'd need a tool to take something in that apart.
The plastic cover for those chain rings also cracked years ago, so I should find a matching cover and replace that while I'm at it.
What's involved in replacing the chain rings on the front?

bikerbobbbb

The pics look worse for the chain rings that in person I think. I think.

They would be getting road salt and grim directly. The bike gets ridden whether it's raining, snowing, or whatever. I don't mess with cleaning everything off it later.

bikerbobbbb

Browsing for chain rings and rear cassette...

2009 Raleigh Detour 4.5 - BikePedia
Rear Cogs 8-speed, 11 - 32 teeth
Crankset Shimano FC-M191, 28/38/48 teeth

There must be a brand name on my cassette somewhere.


Hm.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ed/oHtO6Qgd5a4
https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/s...810/aid:443812

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=sr_1_1&sr=8-1
[h=1]Shimano M171 Mountain Bicycle Crankset - w/Chainguard - FC-M171[/h]$28.15


What I'm seeing...
$15 for a chain
~$20 for the cassette I think
$20-30 for this front chain ring stuff
... and I haven't had to think about this for six years. Why not use it, "abuse" it, and then replace it later when it wears out? Or just buy a new chain each year now that I know and stretch that out potentially? Eventually the chain rings and cassette would wear out anyway.

LesterOfPuppets

Just get a couple of Sram PC850 chains and a steel ruler. Measure chain twice a year or more often. If Pin-to-Pin over 12" gets up to 12-3/32", replace it. Sometimes I just replace at 1/16, since 8-speed chain is so cheap.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...12&category=61

https://www.amazon.com/10416-Westcott...22+steel+ruler

I'd clean drivetrain once a week in the winter, if you can find the time.

LesterOfPuppets

I'd probably splurge for Deore crankset if you're OK with 170mm crankarms. $50 with matching bottom bracket.

Shimano Deore M610 Crankset > Components > Drivetrain > Cranksets | Jenson USA

RoadGuy

With a triple crankset on the front and 7-speeds on the rear, you would be better off with a chain made specifically for use with a triple.

KMC make the X8.93 and X8.99 specifically for 6,7,8 speed drivetrains with triple cranksets. Cost is around $12, including shipping from numerous eBay Sellers.

You will need a chain breaker/chain tool to shorten the chain after you get it. Don't try to break/shorten this chain with an ordinary compact chain tool, the pins are mushroomed some they can't come apart by accident. You will need a Park CT-3 at the very least.

Most KMC chains come with a "Missing Link" reusable master link. You should buy a few spares. You can buy "Missing Links" for less that $1.20 each off eBay. Order a couple spares to put in your seatbag for emergencies.

LesterOfPuppets

I'd probably go with a tightly spaced road cassette since you don't use your little chainring much.

Maybe the first one on this page. I dunno if you could live with a 12T little cog, though. Might spin out too much for ya. If so, grab a 11-xx cassette of you choice. Especially if you go with that Deore crankset with 42T big ring, as it's gonna make your high gear about 11-12% lower.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...17&category=42

Drew Eckhardt 

I split flush riveted chains on a regular basis using a Park CT-5 in spite of being a T-rex armed fly weight climber type.

It's a convenient size for a small wedge pack so I have it with me when I break a chain or bend a link. While those events are rare (four times in the last few decades), it's much nicer to ride home than walk home.

Drew Eckhardt 

It costs less to replace chains more often, cassettes every 4th chain, and rings after lots of miles (some people get 50,000+ miles out of them).

Especially with nice chainrings being unavailable for $10-$15 each.

Lifetime can vary between 2,000 and 10,000 miles. You'll do best measuring it and replacing as needed, whether that's every 2 months or after a few years.

habilis

It's your bike, and you can do what you want with it. I find that if I understand and respect the limits of my bike/car/etc., I get stranded by the side of the road less often. I also find that things are more enjoyable to own and use when they are well cared for. You mentioned that there were times when you felt helpless to move in traffic - a very dangerous situation. A final consideration: you'll waste less money if you treat your bike better.

You clearly are becoming interested in bike repair and maintenance now that your bike has quit on you. Why not think in terms of keeping your bike in better shape? You mention that you are short of time. What greater waste of time than a breakdown on the road?

Okay, nuff preachin'.

bikerbobbbb

I'm learning as I go along. I'll probably replace the chain more often after this. I like being more independent/less tied to a bike shop, even if I'm spending a little more to get that. I'm missing the tools, experience, and knowledge.

Although I am noticing some negative feelings toward these situation. It gets embedded. The chain skipping reminded me of previous bikes that did that. I think the bike I replaced the chain on, that whole derailleur ended up getting destroyed. A thowaway bike though. I drove it until it was really falling apart. My current bike is a step up. I plan on replacing parts and keeping the bike. (Thesius bike, replace everything on it, and then is it still the same bike? The frame is the bike though. As long as the frame's intact, I'll keep replacing pieces I think.) If I'm cramped for time, I'll probably end up paying someone to do the repair, but otherwise... I can save money by learning to do it myself (minus tools, having spares on hand, and paying for mistakes). But the tools and spares are an investment in being ready the next time that repair is needed. In terms of spokes, I'm ready for several spokes breaking now.

The nice bike shop guy who warned me about the chain positioning and then said I'm not supposed to use all the gears told me the chain would stretch. Didn't mention cassette and chain rings. I was thinking of that, but it makes sense now. Both times he mentioned it I was thinking, "Well it's the chain. If it stretches out a bit, so what? I'll just get another chain put on. A chain doesn't cost that much."

One chain per year sounds doable, assuming I can get a chain easily and it's a simple repair to replace. Although... I haven't gotten by for five years without thinking about the chain except for lubing it up. A chain measuring tool might be useful -- Measure and then replace it when I can tell it's stretched for sure. (which means I should keep my current/well-used chain possibly for comparison)


My first step for this is the chain.
Next will be the cassette I think. Because I've got the hub tool and that sounds pretty easy.
And then the chain rings. That sounds more complicated and I bet I'll need more tools.


I haven't read all the posts above yet, but thanks.

Part of it is the newness. It's not just a repair for me. It's figuring out the correct part for sure (stress there -- Mess up and I've wasted money on a useless part). Then figuring out how the repair is done (stress) and how I myself actually do the repair (stress). I imagine if swapping a chain in is easy, in the future I would just buy a new one and pop it on.

And then the other part is that the bike is for transportation, A to B. It would be great for me to be a bike expert, but I do other things. I've got a list of other things I want to do more than learn bike repair. The spokes and chain/cogs bump themselves up as a priority because they're broken.

I still have to think. Maybe watching youtube videos or browsing through the Jobst book will help. It's a choice between putting time in vs. paying money. I don't want to pay money, so I'm putting in the time, but just for what needs to be repaired on my bike. A bike repair class sounds interesting, but... money again. And potentially things are working well enough and nothing is broken at that point. "Mess with something, potentially screw it up" also.


I was thinking earlier too... If I'm doing six miles a day on weekdays. Probably another six on a typical weekend too, but I'm leaving that out. 6mi/day x 5 days a week = 30 miles/week x ~50 weeks/year I'd be riding = ~1,500 miles per year.

It's the same territory all the time. If the bike breaks, I'll just walk. Slow but I can walk to where ever I need to too. I'm not sure I'd put 30 miles/week on my feet though. I've done 10-20 though. The bike just makes it easier.