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F400 Cannondale - headshock adaptor weird stuff going on

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F400 Cannondale - headshock adaptor weird stuff going on

Old 10-14-15, 01:05 PM
  #1  
fury413rb
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F400 Cannondale - headshock adaptor weird stuff going on

I bought this bike awhile back for cheap and literally havent touched it. Its been hanging in my garage since day 1.

Its a lower end bike so it came from Cannondale in 1998 with the adapters and conventional fork.


So the headset is loose and first thing I notice is it doesn't have a conventional star nut thing going on to tighten it up. It has a pinch clamp on top of an actual thrust type bearing sitting on top of the head tube adapter. I used my body way to compress the fork and then tightened up the whole clamp and stem stuff which didnt really get it tight enough.


Whats going on here? I initially want to just the thing riding and I'm thinking about putting a nashbar carbon fork on it and putting together a gravel bike.

I know there is some other headshock conversion stuff out there but this is factory cannondale monkeybusiness that maybe someone reassembled incorrectly at some point. At this point all I have done is drink beer and look at it.





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Old 10-15-15, 07:39 AM
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bump - anyone have any ideas?
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Old 10-15-15, 09:56 AM
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None of your pics show looseness. Presumably you have the bike, eyes, ears, fingers. Inspect it carefully, find the looseness, take it apart and inspect every piece, examine how each piece fits, etc. Nobody here can do any of that.
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Old 10-15-15, 10:38 AM
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I guess one question I have is if this clamp instead of a star nut is normal.
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Old 10-15-15, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by fury413rb View Post
I guess one question I have is if this clamp instead of a star nut is normal.
I would start by loosening the pinch-bolt and seeing what happens when you wiggle the handlebars. Don't see how that could hurt anything.

A Google seatch turned up this article on Cannondale Headshok adapters:http://tryonbike.com/forum/index.php?topic=36.0
However, that pinch-bolt clamp doesn't appear in any of the photos.

Last edited by habilis; 10-15-15 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 10-15-15, 05:11 PM
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I don't think I've seen that particular setup of adapter cups...is it still using the larger headshock bearings or smaller 1 1/8" bearings?

If I recall headshock bearings have the steerer essentially pressed into them and they have no adjustment, so if it still has the large bearings and feels loose they might just need to be replaced.

If it has smaller bearings in those cups I don't see why you couldn't install a starnut...

Edit: It really doesn't look like it has the larger bearings but who knows. Take that thing apart and find out.

Last edited by wesmamyke; 10-15-15 at 05:19 PM.
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Old 10-16-15, 08:16 AM
  #7  
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in the catalog it has a regular fork but it doesn't quite look the same. its the bottom bike 1998 f400 in the optional mango color. traveling for work so when I get home i'll take it apart.

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Old 10-16-15, 10:25 AM
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Something doesn't look right.



Originally Posted by fury413rb View Post
I guess one question I have is if this clamp instead of a star nut is normal.
The star nut is located inside the steering tube.

Don't know what the clamp is doing because it's not doing what star nut does.
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Last edited by cobba; 10-16-15 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 10-16-15, 01:16 PM
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Usually a pinch clamp like that is used so that you can mess around with stems without having to readjust the headset each time.
If you remove the top cap does the steerer come up to the usual height - just below the stem?
You could loosen the pinch clamp and stem and then use a slider type woodworking clamp from below the fork crown to the top of the stem to preload the headset before tightening everything up.
Any reason you couldn't just install a star nut?
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Old 10-16-15, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by cobba View Post
Something doesn't look right.





The star nut is located inside the steering tube.

Don't know what the clamp is doing because it's not doing what star nut does.



I need to get home to mess with this thing because i'm going crazy now lol. I have no idea why that bottom adaptor is so large. It still has the indy s fork it should have had OEM and the guy I bought it from bought it new in 1998 and was about 60 years old.

The top cap is actually just a pop in dust cover plug type thing.
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Old 10-16-15, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Slash5 View Post
Usually a pinch clamp like that is used so that you can mess around with stems without having to readjust the headset each time.
If you remove the top cap does the steerer come up to the usual height - just below the stem?
You could loosen the pinch clamp and stem and then use a slider type woodworking clamp from below the fork crown to the top of the stem to preload the headset before tightening everything up.
Any reason you couldn't just install a star nut?
yes - the steer tube is just below the stem as it sits now. the top cap is actually just a plastic pop in plug right now. I think installing the star nut would be the right thing to do. I'll be home from my work trip Saturday so that afternoon I will pull it apart.
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Old 10-16-15, 01:33 PM
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That's not it in the catalog scan. Wrong head tube, wrong graphics. I see the 2002 came in orange.
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Old 10-16-15, 01:57 PM
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you are totally right. The one in the catalog has a tiny headtube!
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Old 10-16-15, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by IthaDan View Post
That's not it in the catalog scan. Wrong head tube, wrong graphics. I see the 2002 came in orange.
you are definitely right on the head tube! It has the headtube badge of an older bike though which doesn't match 2002 and the derailleurs are SLX and the rims at Sun AT 18 usa made rims.

I wonder if the image is wrong. It lists in the blurb below it that the F400 is easily adaptable to a headshock and being a small headtube bike in the photo that wouldnt work. The cranks and the wheels are correct for my bike and the optional mango color shows a red C head tube decal which matches mine

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Old 10-16-15, 04:06 PM
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There are several things going on here:

Starting from the headtube working outward, you have black adapters that takes it from Cdale's 1.5 SI headset (replaces the SI cups) to accepting a traditional threadless pressfit 1 1/8 headset. I believe they were called Super-V adapters, and then later called Gemini adapters. They came stock on several models in the 90's. From these adapters, you press in a traditional 1 1/8 headset, and install the fork/stem assembly like any other bike. On yours it looks like you have a lock collar below the stem. That keeps the stack assembly tight while adjusting stem or moving it around. Modern Cannondale adapters (KP058) still require a starfangled compression nut. As to why yours doesn't have one? They either came that way from facotry (hence the lock collar), or someone probably removed it at some point if it was later added. So the headset was being held tight by the lock collar, for however long, until it finally loosened enough to be noticeable.

So in short, assuming the headset is still in good working order, you need to install a compression nut in the top end, loosen the lock collar (or just get rid of it and replace it with a regular spacer, which is what I would do), and tighten it like a traditional headset.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Last edited by Jamminatrix; 10-16-15 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 10-17-15, 04:16 AM
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As strange as it looks, that lower headset looks to be setup right.

http://tryonbike.com/forum/index.php?topic=36.0
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Old 10-19-15, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamminatrix View Post
There are several things going on here:

Starting from the headtube working outward, you have black adapters that takes it from Cdale's 1.5 SI headset (replaces the SI cups) to accepting a traditional threadless pressfit 1 1/8 headset. I believe they were called Super-V adapters, and then later called Gemini adapters. They came stock on several models in the 90's. From these adapters, you press in a traditional 1 1/8 headset, and install the fork/stem assembly like any other bike. On yours it looks like you have a lock collar below the stem. That keeps the stack assembly tight while adjusting stem or moving it around. Modern Cannondale adapters (KP058) still require a starfangled compression nut. As to why yours doesn't have one? They either came that way from facotry (hence the lock collar), or someone probably removed it at some point if it was later added. So the headset was being held tight by the lock collar, for however long, until it finally loosened enough to be noticeable.

So in short, assuming the headset is still in good working order, you need to install a compression nut in the top end, loosen the lock collar (or just get rid of it and replace it with a regular spacer, which is what I would do), and tighten it like a traditional headset.

Hope this helps somewhat.
Originally Posted by cobba View Post
As strange as it looks, that lower headset looks to be setup right.

Headtube Adapters
thanks guys! for a newb this is why I like this forum! I pulled it apart last night and it has diatech bearing cups pressed into the adaptors. I think the lower bearing race/retainer is damaged on the fork which is causing the slop. I will snap a couple pictures after work.
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Old 10-19-15, 06:19 PM
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Ah, that awful Diatech headset... They had no star nuts and were tricky to preload and adjust when they were new...

From Sheldon Brown:

Servicing Bicycle Headsets

  • Some "Diatech" headsets from Dia Compe and some Aheadset models use a special pair of collars, usually mounted just below the stem and above the top race. The lower collar has a beveled, conical top surface, which fits inside of a matching bevel on the inner circumference of the upper collar. The upper collar has a gap at one point, with a binder bolt to squeeze the gap together. (This upper collar may also include a cable stop for the front brake, if the bicycle has a rigid fork and conventional cantilever or centerpull brakes.)
    The handlebar stem is clamped tightly to the steerer, preventing the upper collar from moving upward. As the upper collar is compressed by the binder bolt, it squeezes the lower collar downward, taking up any slack in the headset bearings.
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Old 10-21-15, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by kingsting View Post
Ah, that awful Diatech headset... They had no star nuts and were tricky to preload and adjust when they were new...

From Sheldon Brown:

Servicing Bicycle Headsets

  • Some "Diatech" headsets from Dia Compe and some Aheadset models use a special pair of collars, usually mounted just below the stem and above the top race. The lower collar has a beveled, conical top surface, which fits inside of a matching bevel on the inner circumference of the upper collar. The upper collar has a gap at one point, with a binder bolt to squeeze the gap together. (This upper collar may also include a cable stop for the front brake, if the bicycle has a rigid fork and conventional cantilever or centerpull brakes.)
    The handlebar stem is clamped tightly to the steerer, preventing the upper collar from moving upward. As the upper collar is compressed by the binder bolt, it squeezes the lower collar downward, taking up any slack in the headset bearings.

thats it! thanks!








got it all straightened out now. thanks guys!
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