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brake squeeel driven me nuts

Old 11-05-15, 12:53 PM
  #1  
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brake squeeel driven me nuts

Ok I got xt m785 brakes hitting 180mm rotors

I've tried 3 different type of pads against 2 different type of rotors.

I've clean and sanded rotors and pads, no go.

I've tried the proper break in matching up pads to rotors, no go.

Rotor bolts are snug.

no stuck pistons.

This is the rear brake and only squeels at certain pressure.

I'm literally out of ideas.
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Old 11-05-15, 01:21 PM
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Clean every thing ... take the pads out and remove any glazing on them.

Oh done that .... get used to it

Or pay someone to do it all over again ...
organic material pads ?
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Old 11-05-15, 01:38 PM
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I've got shimano sintered pads and Truckerco organic.

Rims are hand built Hope pro hubs, dt swiss spokes to Stans rims and only about 500 miles, they are tru and spokes are plenty tight.

This bike has about 750 miles on it.
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Old 11-05-15, 01:41 PM
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I know NOTHING about disc brakes on bikes. However, I've replaced dozens of pads on cars. It's recommended to put a dab of special anti-seize grease on the backs (not the braking surfaces!!) of pads to help reduce squealing, which is caused by a high-frequency vibration of the pad against the disc. There is also a rubbery fluid that can be painted on the backs of the pads. The fluid and grease are both available in auto parts store. Take care to keep all this stuff off the rotors.

It remains for knowledgeable people to say if the above solution has any relevance to bicycle brakes.
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Old 11-05-15, 01:44 PM
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There you go... like sintered pads? Live with the Noise.

After the BB7 OEM pads I Put on Kool stop organic compound ..







I cannot cure you problem for free over the Internet .
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Old 11-05-15, 02:00 PM
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Habilis I actually grabbed some car anti break squeal crap out of my garage and tried it, no go.

This has been an on an off thing for a few months.

I'm pretty dam mechanically inclined and been around cars, motorcycles, ATVs, bikes you name it and have great success in most all of my challenges. Including full motor rebuilds.

I've been using disk brakes for plenty of years and solved this problem many of times but this time the 20+ possible fixes simply aren't doing it.

Only thing I've not done is buy a entire new rear brake assembly.

The fact that many other riders that I ride with have the same exact brakes and pads and have no issues is aggravating.
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Old 11-05-15, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RIC0 View Post
Habilis I actually grabbed some car anti break squeal crap out of my garage and tried it, no go.

This has been an on an off thing for a few months.

I'm pretty dam mechanically inclined and been around cars, motorcycles, ATVs, bikes you name it and have great success in most all of my challenges. Including full motor rebuilds.

I've been using disk brakes for plenty of years and solved this problem many of times but this time the 20+ possible fixes simply aren't doing it.

Only thing I've not done is buy a entire new rear brake assembly.

The fact that many other riders that I ride with have the same exact brakes and pads and have no issues is aggravating.
I'm guessing you used the anti-seize grease in the little packets. This creates a very thin layer to absorb the vibes that cause the squeal. Before buying new brakes, you have a couple more options. The rubbery fluid, when dry, is like an actual layer of thin rubber to cushion the pads against the pistons. If this doesn't work, there is sheet rubber - a cut-up inner tube, for example - that could improve the buffering. Worth a try.
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Old 11-05-15, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by habilis View Post
I'm guessing you used the anti-seize grease in the little packets. This creates a very thin layer to absorb the vibes that cause the squeal. Before buying new brakes, you have a couple more options. The rubbery fluid, when dry, is like an actual layer of thin rubber to cushion the pads against the pistons. If this doesn't work, there is sheet rubber - a cut-up inner tube, for example - that could improve the buffering. Worth a try.
Welp I just went out and for test purposes put a piece of business card between the pistons and pads and wadaya know.. this was a simple test around the yard but a full test later tonight on the trails and if it works then it's time to find some super thin rubber.
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Old 11-05-15, 02:42 PM
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hope it works out for you, but don't get too hopeful. i went to the trouble to put XT hydros on the front of my road bike to eliminate the terrible screeching i was getting from the caliper brakes on my carbon rims. thought i was in heaven for about 100 miles. then... well you know what happened. they are now on the closet shelf, along with the fork, hub, spokes, and brake bleeding paraphernalia.

i watch many, maybe too many, competitive cycling events. IME, disc brakes, AND calipers, will screech under some conditions. especially disc brakes. even with professional mechanics servicing them on a regular basis. i imagine that the manufacturers are aware of the problem and if there was an effective solution to it, it wouldn't be found on an internet forum first, but in their new product lines.

Last edited by hueyhoolihan; 11-05-15 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 11-05-15, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by hueyhoolihan View Post
hope it works out for you, but don't get too hopeful. i went to the trouble to put XT hydros on the front of my road bike to eliminate the terrible screeching i was getting from the caliper brakes on my carbon rims. thought i was in heaven for about 100 miles. then... well you know what happened. they are now on the closet shelf, along with the fork, hub, spokes, and brake bleeding paraphernalia.

i watch many, maybe too many, competitive cycling events. IME, disc brakes, AND calipers, will screech under some conditions. especially disc brakes. even with professional mechanics servicing them on a regular basis. i imagine that the manufacturers are aware of the problem and if there was an effective solution to it, it wouldn't be found on an internet forum first, but in their new product lines.
With noisy calipers, I've always had success with bending the caliper arms slightly so that the front of the pad comes in contact with the rim first. Use an adjustable wrench set to the thickness of the brake arm.

Don't give up on those disc brakes until you've tried putting something flexible between the pads and the pistons. Brakes are too expensive to toss.

Manufacturers won't do any of this stuff because most brakes work fine off the assembly line. It's the occasional troublesome ones that need special treatment. I'm sure these tricks are all somewhere on the internet.

Last edited by habilis; 11-05-15 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 11-05-15, 04:41 PM
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the tricks are indeed on the internet, they were just ineffective in my case IME. believe me when i say i left no stone unturned... i'm not the type to resort to a 400 parts bill without cause.
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Old 11-06-15, 06:40 AM
  #12  
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Well gents the fix was to put something between the pad and pistons. I found some thick tint used for tinting light covers on cars and put 2 layers of it on the back of each brake pad and put in 10 miles on the trails and the brakes were silent. Was riding with the guy that owns the bike shop I go to and was talking to him about it and he was like wow never heard of that fixing a brake problem. Well buddy now ya know another secret.
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Old 11-06-15, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by RIC0 View Post
Well gents the fix was to put something between the pad and pistons. I found some thick tint used for tinting light covers on cars and put 2 layers of it on the back of each brake pad and put in 10 miles on the trails and the brakes were silent. Was riding with the guy that owns the bike shop I go to and was talking to him about it and he was like wow never heard of that fixing a brake problem. Well buddy now ya know another secret.
Nice! Some day, somebody will Google this thread and benefit from it. So, the stuff you used was a thin plastic? I wonder if a piece of credit card, etc., would also work.
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Old 11-06-15, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by RIC0 View Post
Well gents the fix was to put something between the pad and pistons. I found some thick tint used for tinting light covers on cars and put 2 layers of it on the back of each brake pad and put in 10 miles on the trails and the brakes were silent. Was riding with the guy that owns the bike shop I go to and was talking to him about it and he was like wow never heard of that fixing a brake problem. Well buddy now ya know another secret.
Interesting fix. My number one recommendation to disc brake squeal is rubbing alcohol; use rubbing alcohol and a clean rag to clean the rotors, then keep your hands off the rotors. The oils from your hands will cause brake squeal. This has worked great with my disc brake bikes.
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Old 11-06-15, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
Interesting fix. My number one recommendation to disc brake squeal is rubbing alcohol; use rubbing alcohol and a clean rag to clean the rotors, then keep your hands off the rotors. The oils from your hands will cause brake squeal. This has worked great with my disc brake bikes.
Agreed I have fixed this issue several times of the years doing exactly what you said and that's why this time I was scratching my head like WTF is causing this.

I would think a layer of electrical tape would probably work as well to fix the problem.
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Old 11-06-15, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by RIC0 View Post
Agreed I have fixed this issue several times of the years doing exactly what you said and that's why this time I was scratching my head like WTF is causing this.

I would think a layer of electrical tape would probably work as well to fix the problem.
Good to know, glad you found the fix!
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Old 11-06-15, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by RIC0 View Post
Welp I just went out and for test purposes put a piece of business card between the pistons and pads and wadaya know.. this was a simple test around the yard but a full test later tonight on the trails and if it works then it's time to find some super thin rubber.
RICO, this isn't intended as killjoy to your current method of resolving the brake squeal issue. Just something to ponder and be watchful thereof…

For the infrequent slow-down or stop from flat ground cruising speeds, there’s a good chance the plastic will hold up however, I wouldn’t want to clean up the potential gooey mess behind the brake pad (the plastic having melted via significant braking heat) after making a series of slow downs and/or stops via high-speed descents. That mess could be a genuine pain to clean up and any melted plastic could potentially cause the brake pads to stick or bind as the melted plastic cools and hardens in its new free-flow shape.
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Old 11-06-15, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Gnosis View Post
RICO, this isn't intended as killjoy to your current method of resolving the brake squeal issue. Just something to ponder and be watchful thereof…

For the infrequent slow-down or stop from flat ground cruising speeds, there’s a good chance the plastic will hold up however, I wouldn’t want to clean up the potential gooey mess behind the brake pad (the plastic having melted via significant braking heat) after making a series of slow downs and/or stops via high-speed descents. That mess could be a genuine pain to clean up and any melted plastic could potentially cause the brake pads to stick or bind as the melted plastic cools and hardens in its new free-flow shape.
Possibly, but car brakes have rubber hoses and piston boots that get much more heat than bike brakes can generate. The car parts can last 100k miles.
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Old 11-06-15, 03:31 PM
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Thx for this, maybe a trick like this will solve my problem...
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Old 11-06-15, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Gnosis View Post
RICO, this isn't intended as killjoy to your current method of resolving the brake squeal issue. Just something to ponder and be watchful thereof…

For the infrequent slow-down or stop from flat ground cruising speeds, there’s a good chance the plastic will hold up however, I wouldn’t want to clean up the potential gooey mess behind the brake pad (the plastic having melted via significant braking heat) after making a series of slow downs and/or stops via high-speed descents. That mess could be a genuine pain to clean up and any melted plastic could potentially cause the brake pads to stick or bind as the melted plastic cools and hardens in its new free-flow shape.
My first thought as well...

Originally Posted by habilis View Post
Possibly, but car brakes have rubber hoses and piston boots that get much more heat than bike brakes can generate. The car parts can last 100k miles.
Those materials are specifically formulated to withstand heat in that application; can you say the same about a credit card or window tinting..?
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Old 11-06-15, 03:42 PM
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FWIW, I have installed auto brake pads that came with Teflon shims to eliminate squealing.

Perhaps you can find some and cut them to shape...
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Old 11-06-15, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rmfnla View Post
My first thought as well...



Those materials are specifically formulated to withstand heat in that application; can you say the same about a credit card or window tinting..?
No, so it's definitely worth testing the brakes and seeing what effect heat has on the plastic. If it doesn't work, there remains the liquid sold at auto parts stores, that solidifies as a rubbery layer on the backs of the pads. It's formulated for this purpose.
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Old 11-06-15, 04:09 PM
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Or the Teflon shims I mentioned in post #21 ...
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Old 11-06-15, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by rmfnla View Post
Or the Teflon shims I mentioned in post #21 ...
These sound like a solution, since they are made for the purpose. BTW, I just looked in my garage and found a ten-year-old bottle of the gooey stuff, called "Siloo Anti-Squeak." The brake pad would just need a dab where the piston contacts it.
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