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Shimano 105 5800 Front Derailleur Adjustment

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Shimano 105 5800 Front Derailleur Adjustment

Old 11-09-15, 09:31 PM
  #1  
hoyc
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Shimano 105 5800 Front Derailleur Adjustment

Hi all, I'm using a Shimano 105 5800 FD and having issues with the cable pull and chain rub against the derailleur cage when I'm in the little ring. In order to adjust the proper cable tension as specified by the instructions, there is not enough slack to allow the derailleur to return fully to the lower limit position. There is some definite chain rub when I'm in the biggest 3 cogs in the cassette. Both limits are correctly adjusted. I'm using a full 105 5800 groupset, so no comparability issues. The crank has compact gearing if that makes a difference.

I know that this derailleur is notoriously difficult to set-up, but I followed the dealer manual's installation instructions to a tee (and I double-checked each step, including the FD converter position). I've found this article by Leonard Zinn which addresses the issue, however the takeaway from that article is "follow the dealer instructions", which I have, yet to no avail.

Anyone have any ideas? It isn't really too noticeable when I'm on the bike...though I'd like to fix this if possible.
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Old 11-09-15, 09:41 PM
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What is the bike and seat tube diameter? Can you measure current chain line measurement? Is derailleur cocked a bit out of line? A couple degrees of misalignment can make all of the difference.
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Old 11-09-15, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dwmckee View Post
What is the bike and seat tube diameter? Can you measure current chain line measurement? Is derailleur cocked a bit out of line? A couple degrees of misalignment can make all of the difference.
The frame is an old steel frame from the 80's, so it has skinny tubing (not sure exact diameter). The chainline is about 45mm, which I think is correct? I'm using a hollowtech BB, so there's no adjustment here anyways. The derailleur seems to be straight, though it's possible it's a bit out of alignment. The FD is a braze-on, and there's not any real adjustment to rotate (the frame has been powder coated if that makes a difference?).
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Old 11-09-15, 10:44 PM
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If you have a braze on mount then that takes out alignment possibilities. Is the derailleur new or used?
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Old 11-10-15, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by hoyc View Post
Hi all, I'm using a Shimano 105 5800 FD and having issues with the cable pull and chain rub against the derailleur cage when I'm in the little ring. In order to adjust the proper cable tension as specified by the instructions, there is not enough slack to allow the derailleur to return fully to the lower limit position.
The derailleur should lie against the stop when in the small ring. So I suspect that the low limit stop is not correctly adjusted as you say. Try following these instructions from the beginning: Front Derailleur Adjustment - Park Tool ; I find it easier than the Shimano manual. Do not leave excess clearance from the chain when setting the low limit; you need a millimeter or less. Make certain that the cage is parallel to the chain rings, perhaps the braze-on mount (FD converter?) is slightly tweaked and needs slight, careful adjustment or removal of a burr or high spot on the mounting surface.

Edit: Also make certain that the shift wire is fully payed-out from the shifter before installing it; make certain that it is not in a trim position by downshifting several times while gently pulling on the wire.

Last edited by dsbrantjr; 11-10-15 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 11-10-15, 06:47 AM
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Are you adjusting the L screw with the cable completely slack? You want no tension on it.
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Old 11-10-15, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by hoyc View Post
The frame is an old steel frame from the 80's, so it has skinny tubing (not sure exact diameter). The chainline is about 45mm, which I think is correct? I'm using a hollowtech BB, so there's no adjustment here anyways. The derailleur seems to be straight, though it's possible it's a bit out of alignment. The FD is a braze-on, and there's not any real adjustment to rotate (the frame has been powder coated if that makes a difference?).
Take a look here Shimano Framebuilder Info - Pvdwiki

at the section called Required seat tube dimensions for Front Derailleur

Since your frame is older, it is possible your FD hangar is not in the right place.

If it is not, you need to get a "modern" FD hanger installed by a frame builder or remove it and go to a band clamp. Both are painful options.
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Old 11-10-15, 10:39 AM
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OP states that he has a "FD converter" which I assumed (I know...) is a band clamp adapter. If true the OP should be able to adjust the FD rotation/position.
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Old 11-10-15, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by hoyc View Post
The frame is an old steel frame from the 80's, so it has skinny tubing (not sure exact diameter). The chainline is about 45mm, which I think is correct? I'm using a hollowtech BB, so there's no adjustment here anyways. The derailleur seems to be straight, though it's possible it's a bit out of alignment. The FD is a braze-on, and there's not any real adjustment to rotate (the frame has been powder coated if that makes a difference?).
I assume you tightened the FD pre-load screw (the one that presses against the frame - well shim stuck on frame) in order to make sure the FD is straight?

I have the 6800 FD on my steel bike, which although not "vintage" has narrow tubing an a BSA BB with Shimano Hollowtech BB. The FD is attached using a braze-on adapter (Problem Solvers brand). I've had no issues with chain rub or having a narrow range of motion with the FD. Are you sure you have the converter set up correctly, measured using the TL-FD68 tool?
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Old 11-10-15, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
OP states that he has a "FD converter" which I assumed (I know...) is a band clamp adapter. If true the OP should be able to adjust the FD rotation/position.
It sounds like you've never setup a Shimano 11spd front derailleur. On these front derailleurs, "converter" refers to the small pin that guides the cable into the fixing bolt and adjusts leverage on the arm for what angle the cable comes from the frame. The "converter" can be flipped around to compensate for frames that route the cable from a lower leverage (further right) position. Part of the installation is using the tool "TL-FD68" (which comes in the package with the derailleur) to measure the cable angle and decide on converter position.

Last edited by nhluhr; 11-10-15 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 11-10-15, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
OP states that he has a "FD converter" which I assumed (I know...) is a band clamp adapter. If true the OP should be able to adjust the FD rotation/position.
No, on the latest gen of Shimano FDs, there is a "converter" pin that adjust the route and leverage of the cable. The position depends on the angle of the cable as it comes up from under the BB.

You use a "Cable Converter Judgment Tool" to decide which position it should be in.
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Old 11-10-15, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
OP states that he has a "FD converter" which I assumed (I know...) is a band clamp adapter. If true the OP should be able to adjust the FD rotation/position.
No, on the latest gen of Shimano FDs, there is a "converter" pin that adjust the route and leverage of the cable. The position depends on the angle of the cable as it comes up from under the BB.

You use a "Cable Converter Judgment Tool" to decide which position it should be in.
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Old 11-10-15, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by nhluhr View Post
It sounds like you've never setup a Shimano 11spd front derailleur.
Nor am I likely to, I got off of the "more speeds" merry-go-round years ago.
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Old 11-10-15, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
Nor am I likely to, I got off of the "more speeds" merry-go-round years ago.
So why are you here commenting on the topic?
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Old 11-11-15, 10:58 PM
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Can you also post a picture? With a compact crank and a braze on mount positioned on an older frame, the braze on could be too high also.
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