Hubs sideplay - does this seem normal to you?
 

Hi there, I have a Easton EA90 SL front wheel (latest version) that I've been having trouble with for some time now. It has some noticeable side-play. Bike shop made a couple of tries to get it fixed but no success so far. After their last attempt I have now noticed that the play actually goes away when I close the quick release less hard than I would usually do.

Does this seem normal to you? Should the force you use to close the release have any impact on sideplay or how the hub rotates in any shape or form?

Thanks!

Lars

Something doesn't add up.

Closing the QR normally causes bearings to tighten slightly by compressing the axle and/or bowing the axle if the dropouts aren't perfectly parallel. But I can't imagine any way that a tighter QR would cause increased play.

yes, thanks, I thought so. What you are saying makes perfect sense, so I probably should let them have another look at it.

QR tightness has been employed to set bearing adjustment for decades, but the usual is to have the end play reduce with increasing QR force. One can debate the merits of this but with many axles not dealing with compressive forces well, it's a fact. But one can ride a bike for thousands of miles with wheel (and other bearings) having a bit of end play, and not even feel it while riding. At the rim how much play is there with the least amount of QR tension required to hold the wheel in place? Do you feel any play when riding the bike with what might be proper QR tension? Andy.

when I close it so the wheel is held in place, but less tightly than normal, there is no play at the rim. When I close it with more pressure, as I would normally do there's probably half a mm of play or so at the rim, not an awful lot but clearly noticeable. I've just never had this before on any wheels in three decades of cycling...and these are the most expensive ones I have ever owned :)

IDK what hubs you have .. if they used a radial contact sealed bearing that may account for some play/runout at the rim.

that's normal for that kind of Bearing.

there may be something broken in the hub that could cause that. unlikely, but possible. a broken bearing perhaps. maybe a manufacturing defect in the the dropouts that could cause it. again unlikely. but to eliminate the dropouts i would try a wheel in there that i knew to be satisfactory in all respects. that should eliminate, or not, the dropouts as a cause.

you might even take a look at the QR skewer. it's possible that the cam mechanism is over-reaching the high point, or something similar... so maybe try a different QR?

Ditto. It is normal to have a little play in radial bearings.

These are cartridge bearings so the QR tension thing does not apply.

Open up the pdf for R4 Front Hub:

Easton Cycling - Road, Mountain and Tri/TT Wheels, Seat Posts, Handlebars, Stems and more.

One end cap has a 5mm hex opening; that is tightened into the axle to eliminate the play.

The axle on the other side is a 5mm hex as well so you use two wrenches to do this...

It's a different hub, my wheels are the EA90, not eh EC90, they come with what they call the Echo hub, hasn't got any adjustment unfortunately.

yeah, I have done that, my other wheel, a Novatec Jetfly, works perfectly, no play whatsoever. I have also tried the Easton wheels with the Novatec QRs and doesn't make any difference. In the shop we tried the Easton wheels on a different fork and also had the play...so I think it's almost certainly the hub...

So here's a possible explanation. When out of the bike the hub bearings are slightly preloaded outwardly. So the inner races are a touch wider apart then the outer races are. The QR compression does it's thing and the inner races are squeezed closer to an alignment/preload point of neutral load. So the slight looseness is actually how the bearing sits naturally, as others have already said this is the way of radial contact cartridge bearings. Andy.

Sorry, I don't know much about hub construction :) Are you saying that the hub is doing is perfectly normal for this type of hub?

My bad; I C/P-ed from your listing and that's what came up...

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=490285http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=490286http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=490287http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=490288"normal"??? Common, yes. I went back and reread some of this thread and see that the rim play amount is about .5mm. This isn't too much at all. By the way I was reading before, I had the impression the play was much more. Southerland's manual has a good explanation of radial contact cartridge bearings. I've attached scans of this but suspect the text is too small to read. Basically says these bearings want and need a small free play during running.

One more pet point that I'll mention. There's a trend to use smaller and smaller bearings in bike parts. Lighter weight and smaller dimensions (think integrated headsets and tiny hubs) are positive goals. But the load capacity of the rolling element is the number and the diameter of the balls. Ball count is linear. 10 balls of the same diameter make for twice the load capacity as 5 balls do. The diameter, however, increases a ball's load geometrically with increasing diameter. So if those 5 balls were twice the diameter as the 10 were the bearing would have twice the load capacity. When you open up a modern bike cartridge bearing and look at the ball diameter then do the same for "traditional" cup and cone you'll see that the cartridge bearing almost always has the smaller balls. Then subtract the ball count because the radial cartridge bearing rarely has a full compliment of balls because of assembly issues (unless much expense is taken). No doubt some will have "fast" bearing wear. It's easy to see that the bearings that come in many new designs have been picked despite the lifespan limits. Andy.

Thats great, thanks! I'll download and see if I can read it :)