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Metal non-drive/ plastic drive cups on sealed BB?

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Metal non-drive/ plastic drive cups on sealed BB?

Old 12-01-15, 05:33 PM
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Metal non-drive/ plastic drive cups on sealed BB?

Hello all,
I am trying to tear down an old Trek 850 Antelope for overhaul. It has a plastic drive side cup and a metal non drive side cup. I have never seen this before. Has anyone ever heard of this?
It should still be standard English threaded, with reverse threaded drive side and normal threaded non drive side, right?

Last edited by Seizedpost; 12-01-15 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 12-01-15, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Seizedpost View Post
Hello all,
I am trying to tear down an old Trek 850 Antelope for overhaul. It has a plastic drive side cup and a metal drive side cup. I have never seen this before. Has anyone ever heard of this?
It should still be standard English threaded, with reverse threaded drive side and normal threaded non drive side, right?
Pretty standard for Shimano Square taper. As long as the plastic cup isn't broken, there's not problem with it either. The cup on this kind of bottom bracket only serves to keep the bottom bracket in place. On the plus side, it's hard to screw up the threads in your bottom bracket if you cross thread it.
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Old 12-01-15, 05:47 PM
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What you see is the common mid/low cost arrangement for Shimano a few years ago. This plastic/metal design works quite well with the only issue from over tightening the plastic retaining ring (I won't use the term "cup" as it isn't a bearing cup). If over tightened or run into the shell too far the ring's flange can crack. This still doesn't really do anything to hinder the function. I have seen a few plastic rings become hard to remove when the flange completely breaks off. But then one just removes the BB from the drive side (which uses a steel thread and flange) and digs out the remaining plastic ring. Being plastic the damage to the Bb shell is pretty much none. However newer UN-5X Bb's use metal on both sides. Andy.
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Old 12-01-15, 06:21 PM
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The only odd thing I see is that the plastic is on the drive side. I'm used to it being on the non drive side.
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Old 12-01-15, 06:36 PM
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I made this post in a little bit of a hurry, and made a typo in the original post (which I fixed now.) The drive side is plastic. I accidentally said "It has a plastic drive side cup and a metal drive side cup."
Non drive side (metal)

What's left of the plastic drive side:

Did they somehow put it in backwards?

Assuming it's standard English and not cross threaded in backwards, it's really tight/ rusted.

The flange of the non drive side cup actually cracked while I was trying to remove it! It's still one piece, but I wanted to make sure I'm turning the right direction (counter-clockwise on the non drive side). I used plenty of PB blaster and it's had days to soak in.

Last edited by Seizedpost; 12-01-15 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 12-01-15, 07:13 PM
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Put the bike on the ground, and have a helper hold it. Bolt a removal tool to the left side cup, and put a big adjustable crescent or, preferably, spud wrench on it (remembering that you are turning it to the left, ie: front of the bike, to remove it). Use a cheater pipe if you have to, but before that, use an impact gun if you have access to one (which would require a socket-style tool).

The plastic one can be destructively removed fairly easily, but only once the cartridge is out.

I have encountered some particularly corroded bottom brackets that did come out, but only with excessive (3 foot lever) force. Check that you didn't damage anything removing it, and you'll likely need to have the threads chased.
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Old 12-01-15, 07:15 PM
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You are confusing me, saying two different things - but it doesn't matter.
Remove the metal side first. Then worry about the plastic cup.
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Old 12-01-15, 07:38 PM
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Oops. Sorry. i was in a rush and made a typo again, trying to correct my original typo. I hoped the pictures would set the record straight.
The drive side is plastic. The non drive side is metal.
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Old 12-02-15, 09:52 AM
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Advantage Plastic : it wont corrode and fuse* to a steel BB shell and cartridge , like aluminum can ..

Tightening the drive side does 90% of the mounting , the sleeve adds stability ..

* galvanic corrosion , like what makes for very stuck seat posts and stems.
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Old 12-06-15, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Pretty standard for Shimano Square taper. ....
With the Shimano sealed bottom brackets if it has a plastic cup then that goes on the non-drive side... The UN-26 is one with a plastic cup, and all the instructions say it goes on the left side.

OP's bike could have been put together wrong I guess? Or are those threads reversed?? I don't remember and can't fine one not in a bike at the moment...
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Old 12-06-15, 04:22 PM
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See? This is why I asked.
I actually broke the cup following Schruba's recommendation and broke the cup. Most of it is still in there but the splined part the tool goes in broke into little pieces. And yes, I used penetrating fluid.
Some of the threads on the shell got exposed when it broke. They're normal lefty-loosey threads, so I was turning it the right way (left).
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Old 12-06-15, 08:38 PM
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You may, in fact, be SOL, as they say. You can try supporting the bottom bracket shell with an equivalent diameter pipe, with an I.D. that clears the cartridge, and use a deadblow or sledge to try to knock the cartridge through the plastic side, but I'd rate your success chances as fairly low. Cut notches into the plastic cup with a thin cold chisel first. Assuming you manage to knock the cartridge through, the metal cup can then be removed with a cold chisel.
Unless this is a valuable frame to you, you might be better served just grabbing a new one. You'll need someone who really trusts you (see: sledge) to hold the frame for you, and good aim. You won't really get a second shot.

Alternatively, if the bottom bracket is still spinning and not wobbling around...ride it into the ground and then worry about trying to get it out.

It's entirely possible that the metal cup is well an seized in the frame.

Last edited by wschruba; 12-06-15 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 12-06-15, 10:42 PM
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The Op has confused me. At first I thought that he was asking about a LH cup/ring which is plastic. Then later I read that he means the drive side was plastic. Now he says that the plastic cup/ring is a lefty loosey one, which usually means it's a RH thread (and how I dislike this non descript term. After all how you position the wrench can be the opposite WRT it's direction to turn for the same effect.)

So as they say on the Shark Tank I'm out. Andy.
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Old 12-07-15, 05:15 AM
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No. The metal one is lefty loosey.
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Old 12-07-15, 11:46 AM
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There have been just enough info provided to make the issue totally confusing. If indeed the plastic cup is on the drive side and is a right hand thread, the only thing that comes to mind is that the BB shell was installed backwards?
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Old 12-07-15, 12:53 PM
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For the record , Shmanio did and does low end seal bottom bracket , They the LP series, some were also the LN series and yes the plastic cup goes into the drive side , which is left handed thread . The carriage go in the non drive side ( left side of the bike ) which is right handed threaded which goes in clockwise . If the plastic cup break in removable , all is need is pick them out . All because you only see bottom brackets go in one way doesn't mean they all are .
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Old 12-07-15, 01:02 PM
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+1 for bikeman715 I removed a bb off my sisters old kona that had a drive side plastic cup, first and last time I have seen that. I replaced it with another sealed unit that was the more common plastic cup non drive side
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Old 12-07-15, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bikeman715 View Post
For the record , Shmanio did and does low end seal bottom bracket , They the LP series, some were also the LN series and yes the plastic cup goes into the drive side , which is left handed thread . The carriage go in the non drive side ( left side of the bike ) which is right handed threaded which goes in clockwise . If the plastic cup break in removable , all is need is pick them out . All because you only see bottom brackets go in one way doesn't mean they all are .
Correct, and those "insert from the left side" BBs were made with Italian threading also.
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Old 12-30-15, 08:17 PM
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Just so everyone knows how this turned out:

I ended up bringing it to a guy with a machine shop. He removed the spindle and bearings, then cut the housing out. As you can see he had to cut into the shell a little, but it's not deep.
I got a un-55 as a replacement, and I will install it with plenty of grease.
Thanks for the replies, and sorry for the confusion.
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Old 12-30-15, 10:10 PM
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A big thumbs up for the follow up post. Those of us who care about what we say and how it helps thank you. Glad you got the BB out. The shell "damage" is not a big deal from what I see. Consider using anti seize if you ride in much salt. Andy
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