wschruba

Due to the way anti-trust laws are interpreted in the EU, Shimano cannot do this. It is considered price-fixing.

How/why that doesn't apply in the USA, which ostensibly has similar laws, is something that I would like to know.

Inpd

Yep. I ordered the silver variety of the above for $126 from Ribble last week. Free delivery and since its under $200 supposedly no duty.

Andy_K 

The schedule for import duty is ridiculous. I actually tried to look it up recently for a crankset I was buying. "Cotterless-type crank sets and parts thereof" are duty free but "other crank-gear and parts thereof" are subject to a 10% duty rate (or possibly 6.1%, if temporary code 9902.24.71 applies). I guess a 6800 Ultegra crank is cotterless or does that term strictly apply to square taper cranks???

As for the 105 shifters, I wouldn't want to stake my reputation on what the duty should be. I see the 10% rate for brake parts, but I also see "click twist grips and click stick levers" listed as duty free. What the heck is a click stick lever? Is that an indexed downtube or bar-end shifter? The duty schedule doesn't seem to be keeping up with technology. Maybe it shouldn't try to be so detailed.

It appears that mountain bikes are subject to twice the duty rate of road bikes (unless the road bike is really heavy), which is weird.

The most interesting thing I saw while browsing through chapter 87 of the tariff schedule is this description of items which are duty free (unless you're getting them from Cuba or North Korea):

"Tanks and other armored fighting vehicles, motorized, whether or not fitted with weapons, and parts of such vehicles"

So just claim the 105 shifters are for your tank, and there will be no duty required.

dr_lha

They could raise wholesale prices. Wholesale prices for Shimano products in the USA are higher than in Europe. This is why if you talk to your LBS about online prices, they will tell you that the prices you can get groupsets from Europe are cheaper than their wholesale prices. That's not a lie.

wschruba

This is an important distinction, thank you.

The general attitude in shops/mechanics that I have spoken to is outright hostility that there are no MAPs in the EU. I did not consider that the wholesale price is wildly different between continents.

dr_lha

Stuff I've ordered has been labelled with this tariff code:

8714.99.80 - Pts. & access. nesoi, for bicycles and other cycles of heading 8712 - United States International Trade Commision Harmonized Tariff Schedule

which is 10%, but yeah, looking at the regs it looks like the bike shop is just being lazy using this code, as there are specific codes for each bike part. Who can be bothered to put in all the seperate codes for all the parts of a groupset though, it's ridiculous.

dr_lha

If the article I posted earlier is to be believed, the wholesale price of a 105 groupset in the USA is around $500, whereas it can be obtained form Europe for around $350 (non wholesale price). That's a pretty big difference!

Jamminatrix

Higher prices = more flexibility in pricing. Lower prices mean slimmer profits, especially if they're going to make competitive pricing against online retailers.

From a business perspective, pushing for equal high prices is better (for the business) than pushing for equal low prices (better for consumers).

A lot of retailers (especially Chinese ones) are very deceptive in miscoding the tarriffs to avoid customs for the consumer.

As for UK retailers, sometimes I think they don't even know what they're doing. For instance here's one order (I didn't even buy a crankset), where they just lumped items sporadically into various categories:

sch

SRAM doesn't seem to be operating a charity in the US either, though I haven't compared Ribble/Probiket with Performance or Colorado Cycle.
My local independent LBS says his wholesale is typically the same or larger than online 'retail' prices in US esp out of Amazon, to say nothing of the UK
prices.

wesmamyke

I don't think I've ever been nailed for import tax yet buying from anywhere in the EU.

If it matters to you Nashbar and a few others have a tendency to sell OEM parts loose packed in plastic bags, not retail boxed versions.

eastbay71

I buy from Chain Reaction, Wiggle & Ribble in the UK and have never paid VAT or any type of import duties. rarely have I even paid for shipping. and since you bought outsside the US you owe no state sales tax either.

eastbay71

I know there is a lot of sentiment for your LBS on this forum but I really just don't feel it. I don't feel like I've ever been treated any better for paying more at an LBS so what's the point of paying more? So someone that isn't me can live their cycling dream? No thanks I'll live my own cycling dream of having more bikes and nicer parts. Working on a bike for the most part is straight forward, I learned to assemble and tune bikes in high school. I will consult a local shop if I need wheel work but thats about it.

dr_lha

SRAM stuff is more expensive at the same level from the UK than Shimano though, so they're doing a somewhat "better" job of keeping prices in check.

HillRider

I used to assign "Harmonizing Numbers" to my companies products for export and the system was all but indecipherable. Our products were all chemicals, not hardware items, and I could always find two or three classifications that could be arguably applied to any product. It was a real rarity when I found an accurate, unambiguous description.

mstateglfr 

I was on wiggle and chainreaction today. One of them specifically says no import fees for under $200.

Inpd

If you read the "UK Official ... Master ..." this was discussed. Though all sites say this, I asked if anyone found this information on a us.gov website and the answer seems to be no.

dr_lha

From:
https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/internet-purchases

CafeVelo

Good shop customers get deals on bikes, parts, and don't pay for services like bottom bracket facing or the borrowing of tools impractical to own for most people. Plus they're welcome in the shop, and shops are cool. Thats been my experience as both the preferred customer and the shop.

oldsmobum

When they are gone will the internet fix your wheels? Not everyone is inclined enough or cares to learn how to work on their own bikes, and they are far more active in advocacy than most online shops. NO ONE in the bike shop is getting rich off of you. That being said, the retail climate is what it is, and those shops that insist on whining about it instead of adapting or try to go head to head with the internet will be gone shortly. Do you tip your server in a restaurant? Not everything is dramatically cheaper online. If you like the shop, and the price isn't too much higher, buy from the shop and consider the few extra dollars the "tip". Every bit helps.

The price differential is multi faceted... There are three big ways these outlets get the parts cheaper:
1. Distribution channels. Shimano Japan treats Shimano America just like a separate company, and they sell product to the American division marked up. This happens a lot with Japanese companies, like komatsu (which my dad works for) Europe sources parts from Japan not Europe. This is what the local rep explained to me.
2. Manufacturers discount. Some of these retailers qualify as a manufacturer, by owning a bike line. This way they can order parts in higher quantities and resell them at lower prices.
3. They buy from manufacturers. Often manufacturers like Giant will over order componentry. Online resellers will buy this stuff at 70% what the manufacturer paid for it, further deepening their ability to discount.

None of these your bike shop qualifies for. Often the wholesale price is higher than the online price, so they would never be able to price match unless they wanted to lose money on the deal.

Most of these channels are not supported by Shimano, and they technically do not carry a warranty. Caveat emptor

ltxi

We used to have a really good hardware store here. Good, knowledgeable folk with fair prices just trying to make a decent living. They were driven out of business by the big box HD/Lowes guys.

Don't want that functionally equivalent thing happening to my equally as good LBS. So I tend to support them as much as possible. Death of a good local resource to save a few $$ is not good for either of us, esp when honest competitive pricing is beyond their control.

Jamminatrix

The big three UK retailers are all authorized Shimano dealers that offer the standard 2/3 year warranty.

The only "caveat" for consumers is justifying paying international shipping for warranty, which often times is a significant portion of the cost of a new one anyway. For instance, paying $150 international shipping on a $200 wheelset.

And of course normal wear and tear isn't covered anyway. How often do you hear about a derailleur or cassette randomly falling apart? Assurance really only applies to upper echelon things like DI2 drivetrain, which is damn reliable already.

oldsmobum

Unfortunately I see regular components like derailleurs and cassettes come in for warranty related issues not regularly, but often enough not to be surprised either.. And items bought outside of the proper supply chain can also void your dealer status. Which also puts shops in a bind. They aren't even allowed to source their parts from these outlets to pass the savings on to their customers. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense when an expensive item costs almost half as much; but when a $27.99 item is $24.99 online, just go in and get it!