Slippery forward facing horizontal dropout fix
 

Many know the problem of the horizontal dropout with QR skewer. My old fuji touring bike has the same setup. The drive side of the rear wheel keeps coming out from the dropout. I tried to tighten the skewer as much as possible. The wheel seems to be stable, but the hub is under compression load and put rolling resistance to the wheel.

Now I use a Redline chain tensioner to hold the QR skewer inside the dropout. The concept is similar as Surly Hurdy Gurdy, which limits the movement of skewer. Could anyone tell me if a chain tensioner on the skewer is a good idea or not? since QR skewer is such a thin piece, will the skewer break or bend when I put a lot of load on the drive train?

What kind of qr skewer are you using? If it's one of the boutique exterrnal cam types, it won't generate enough force to keep the wheel from slipping. Get a Shimano or Campy-type internal cam skewer with steel faces and the problem should go away. Keeping the dropout faces clean and free of oil and roughing them up will also help. The chain tensioner should be ok but should not be needed.

BTW, if the skewer force is binding the wheel, you have the bearings adjusted too tight. There should be a bit of play in the axle when the wheel is out of the bike and the play should disappear when the wheel is clamped in the dropout with the skewer.

I agree with HillRider that modern skewers are the rpoblem, but have my own theory (or explanation) why.

In all of this keep in mind that bikes were made with horizontal dropouts and QR wheels since the invention of the quick release. And up until the advent of vertical dropouts, slippage wasn't an issue. So, in keeping, with the first rule of mechanical detective work, we have to ask "what changed?".

What happened is that two things happened at about the same time, vertical dropouts, and the "CNC machined from billet" era. Suddenly we had a whole new slew of machined aluminum (except for the shaft itself) skewers. Most had external cams, but the defining feature that defined them all were the aluminum end parts, which IMO are the root of the problem.

If you've ever used pliers or a pipe wrench to turn a smooth round pipe, you'll see it in a minute. Imagine if those tools were made of soft aluminum, or simply had dull rounded teeth. Without sharp teeth capable of biting into the pipe.

So just like you want pliers with sharp hard teeth capable of biting into the pipe, you want a skewer with hard and sharp teeth capable of biting into the dropout and holding without needing outlandish pressure.

Not I , never had/have the "problem" in >40 years of using the tech.
Do as [MENTION=38165]HillRider[/MENTION] & [MENTION=158672]FBinNY[/MENTION] suggest and get a proper internal cam skewer designed for the application from Shimano or Campagnolo and install it correctly: Done.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=512997

-Bandera

I'll add that the compressive nature of the plastic cam plate will further limit the QR skewer's clamping force. Andy

This should not be happening if the hub bearings are adjusted properly. The cones are threaded onto the axle so their spacing can be adjusted by turning them on the axle threads with a thin wrench (called a cone wrench). When spaced properly they let the wheel spin freely with no noticeable play no matter how tight the QR is adjusted. Sounds like yours are adjusted too tight. As already mentioned, the traditional type of QR (internal cam with sharp knurled teeth to bite into the dropouts) should have no trouble keeping the wheel from slipping. Another potential problem is if the end of the axle protrudes too far past the nut on the end. In that case the QR might be clamping down on the end of the axle rather than exerting all its force clamping the dropout.

There should be no need for the additional complexity of a separate chain tensioner.

Though there's some disagreement on the details of the cause, the fix is the same.

You need a QR capable of biting and holding on the frame to the same extent as the QR skewers of the past did.

How about a thick steel washer between skewer end and dropout, with grooves cut in the washer (file, dremel)?

Heck, I'd even try two of those "star" shaped anti rotation washers.

I've had that issue once. Turned out that hub had smooth locknuts.
Used a center punch to create a set of dimples with raised edges on them, which was enough to fix the problem.

I have only had this problem of slipping skewers once and it was because I had had my frame painted and didnt notice the painter...who did a terrible job generally...had painted over the dropouts. Once I scraped off the paint, all was well. While this does not seem to be an issue for OP, in addition to agreeing that modern internal cam skewer should solve the issue, I would suggest giving some love to the dropouts, making sure they are clean and free of matter that might be inhibiting skewer engagement.

Yes, & a hub locknut face that bites into the inside of the dropout face.. good hubs have hardened steel locknuts that grip.

Can you recommend the exact model of internal cam skewer? Mine is a shimano internal cam. But it may not be good enough.

Thanks. I will check the hub myself today.

Shimano is fine but check to be sure it has steel, not aluminum, inside facing teeth.

Again, your real problem seems to be the hub's bearing adjustment and that should be fixed first.

Not wanting to insult your intelligence, but since nobody else has asked it I will; you ARE using the QR properly, right? That is, are you closing it by turning the cam lever over center as opposed to using the lever like a wingnut and winding the QR closed?

This page shows the correct procedure and also the enclosed cam mechanism shown is the only kind which will clamp satisfactorily. How To Use Bicycle Quick Releases

prathmann's comment regarding axle length/protrusion is worth checking out as well.

Ii seems he has the proper qr type and can, by tightening it adequately, keep the wheel from slipping. The only problem is when he does that the hub binds. Obvious conclusion: adjust the bearings properly and the problem is solved.

It happens.

I can't, and don't try to, speak for Prathmann, but I suspect that what he means is that it shouldn't be an issue if hubs are properly adjusted to allow for QR induced axle compression.

So, yes QR's do compress the axle, but should no be able to do so to where it causes binding.

Not if a Shimano or Campagnolo internal cam QR is installed properly with the bearings adjusted for QR compression, this was not a "problem" back when horizontal dropouts and cup/cone hubs were the norm.

If "it happens" for you go back to proper Old School hardware & technique: "just a touch" of end-play at the axle uninstalled.

-Bandera

Sorry, I was referring to the slippage, not compression of the wheel bearings. Right, if the wheel bearings are done correctly, it's extremely difficult to compress them using just a quick release and your bare hands.

Just adding a minor note: I've got a Shimano skewer right here, where the grippy part on the cam side is aluminum.

Yep, and perfectly fine with vertical dropouts, but most definitely would not be my choice for horizontal dropouts.

As I posted earlier, low-hold-strength QR skewers are an adaptation made possible by vertical dropouts, and sadly folks seem to have forgotten why they have limitations.

You don't necessarily need Knurled skewers. My old Campy skewers are smooth. But the locknuts should have some texture/knurling.

If the wheel slips and the skewers hold fast, you'll get bent skewers.

I'm not sure the issue is steel vs aluminum. However, many of the external cam skewers have a nylon bushing which could lower the pressure. The internal cam skewers generally are steel on steel (or aluminum). And steel will wear better.

Yes, the locknuts are a piece of the equation, and I used to emphasize that, but too many hubs don't give users an easy option for change lock nut faces.

Also, knurling is only one way to improve bite, and I generally focus on the bite rather than how it's achieved. Many Campagnolo hubs had knurling on neither the axle or skewer faces, instead relying on a thin foot to produce the needed bite.

As for your notion that hold via skewer rather than axle face will cause bent skewers, that's a non-issue. AFAIK it's never happened. A skewer who's ends are well supported won't bend, while one overhanging the end of the dropout will, simply from the unbalanced forces.