davidonabike

So I spent the weekend scratching my head as to why I couldn't get shifting to function properly. Using Shimano rapid fire type shifters. Figured out it MUST be my derailleur hanger, as the indexing would not lineup properly no matter what.

I took it to the shop instead of buying a derailleur adjuster tool. They said said, yup, it's slightly misaligned. So I gave them $30 to bend and setup the rear derailleur. This was done at a very reputable shop in town.

On my ride home from work after the tuneup I am still experiencing a gear not wanting to switch, and poor slow shifting between gears, causing me to push the shifter halfway to another gear to get the gear to shift up. Maybe the bike switches fine when there is no force, but once there is force perhaps this problem occurs?

Any ideas? Last week I put on new cables, super cleaned up the cassette, crank, and put on a brand new chain.

Are my shifters just crappy and need replacing? They are no tier type stock shifters, but it's allegedly a simple ratchet type setup ,right? Do they slowly mechanically lose their index?

SkyDog75

Sure, it could be a hardware problem with the shifter or derailleur, but that's pretty unlikely and the usual modes of failure don't sound like what you're describing. The root of your problem is much more likely to be an adjustment issue, an installation issue like improper cable clamping/routing, or excessive cable friction.

Since you paid a shop to adjust the derailleur, I'd take it back and let them know it's still not shifting right. If it's an adjustment issue, they're likely to take care of it for you. If it's a hardware problem, they'd be able to diagnose it in person a whole lot easier than we can over the Internet.

If you want to tackle it yourself, there are some good step-by-step tutorials on derailleur adjustment, like the one on Park Tool's web site, linked below. Follow it methodically, step by step, without skipping anything, and you should get your shifting dialed in as well as possible.
Rear Derailleur Adjustment | Park Tool

techsensei

When you changed the cables, did you change the housing as well?

davidonabike

I didn't change the housing when I replaced the cables. They were coated cables boasting their ability to not need any lube. The cabling went in quite easily and I didn't feel much friction.

Thanks for the link SkyDog! I'll likely end up back in the shop...

rm -rf

My 2006 Campagnolo Veloce rear derailleur was quite worn out after about 15,000 to 18,000 miles. The pivot points were worn, so the shifts were sloppy, including having to push past and then back to the next largest cog. (Similar to your symptoms.) I saw a huge difference after I replaced the derailleur.

If you wiggle the derailleur with your fingers, does it move much? How many miles on the drivetrain?

I was careful to clean and lube the derailleur, but the pivots were just small pressed-in pins. The newer models have beefy pivots, spaced farther apart. A much stronger design.


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Shifters
I don't know much about rapid fire shifters. But if you hear and feel a click when you shift, they should be fine. I've ridden worn shifters, and the click is vague and quiet. It sort of oozes into the next gear instead of clicking in.

Miele Man

A new chain on old cogs can lead to shifting troubles sometimes. Could it be that your NEW chain isn't a good match for your OLD cassette? Are you positive you got the right chain? That is, you didn't accidently get a too wide of a chain? Is a cog on your cassette worn more than the others thus causing the chain to hesitate before moving to the next cog?

Good luck and cheers

ddeand 

Lots of possibilities - but the shop should sort it out for you. That said, I bought a new bike last year and had shifting issues, so I had a shop check it out. Turns out the hanger was ever so slightly bent. I ended up replacing the hanger, and everything has worked great since. So, don't totally rule out hardware even though it's likely adjustment.

DOS

Cable routing and worn casette would be the next things I would check.

davidonabike

Thanks again for all the input. I checked the receipt and they only billed for the derailleur hanger alignment. Didn't touch indexing and so on.

Two more questions please.

Perhaps this is common but I don't have a frame of reference. The cassette does have a slight wobble. Is this normal?

Secondly, the new chain I purchased is a Tiagra, all my components are Ultegra. The Tiagra chain looks thicker, and doesn't leave much room between gears, it's quite snug. In setting up the rear derailleur I've seen the chain sit atop the cogs, but perhaps that was during the stage of fine tuning the shifting with the barrel adjuster.

Andrew R Stewart 

At our shop we include a der adjustment with a hanger alignment. We assume the customer expects the der to shift properly after we charge money for work on the hanger.

All cassettes (and freewheels) have some wobble. Most don't have enough to be a shifting issue. Only when chain meshing of shifting is an issue is the wobble wrong. There are 4 to 6 manufacturing aspects that all need tolerances to be held tight for minimal wobble to be the case.

Chains are specd WRT the cassette cog count first, not the cost grade. So is your Tiagra chain speced for the same cog count as the Ultegra you mention? Within the cog count spec there is a small (.1-.2mm) width difference across brands and versions of most currently made chains. Andy

davidonabike

I would say the wobble isn't enough to mess with the shifting, so that's comforting.

I wish I knew size specs. The chain was a 10 speed chain as is the cassette.

Andrew R Stewart 

I should have mentioned that one measurement is worth a thousand written specs. Andy.

Miele Man

Hn, I wonder if the cog that has the poor shift has a bent tooth?

I set up index shifting using the middle or closest to middle rear cog. That way any effect of any error is reduced.

Cheers

Doc V

If they did not adjust your derailleur after straightening your hanger, then your shifting is off due to indexing problems. Adjusting the rear shifting should fix your problems. If not, then move on to trouble shooting.

fietsbob

Wanna try My LBS?

corrado33

I would personally change the housing. It's the first thing that I change when I have shifting problems on any bike I work on and it solves 60% of all the problems I see. Changing the cable solves another 30%. (Actually, unless I'm working on a very crappy bike and I'm trying to save money, I'll almost always change both the housing and cables at the same time... Unless one of the housings broke for some reason, or was the wrong length, etc.)

Often times the cable and housing will slide fine when it they aren't seated in the braze on housing stops. As soon as you mount the housing in the housing stops the cable will rub on something and have a TON of friction. This is often solved by changing the length of the housing or switching the routing up a bit.

Rapidfire shifters (the really old style) where you could push the "shift to an easier gear" lever all of the way from one side of the freewheel to the other without letting it come back were super simple. Literally a ratcheting system. I think "rapidfire" became just a term that was used in marketing in the future because I don't remember all rapidfire shifters being like this. Maybe I am wrong.

Are you sure you didn't miss a gear when adjusting the derailleur? One of the most common mistakes I see when people adjust their own RDs is that they'll miss the first "click" of their shifter, then adjust from there. So (say for a 7 speed) they could shift to 6 without the gears actually shifting. Then they adjust 5 (on the shifter) to be the 6th gear, 4 to be the 5th, etc. That'll often result in ONE gear in the middle of the freewheel not shifting correctly. It's odd. You can still reach the final (1st) gear because of the extra room most shifters have at the end of the indexed range. I've seen this a good half dozen times or so over the last few months. (I've even done it once.) On some shifters the first click is very subtle.

Lastly, is the B screw adjusted correctly? A B screw that's too far IN will exaggerate any shifting oddities. You will almost always want the pulley(the first/higher plastic cog on the derailleur) to be as close to the big cog as it can be without touching (or jamming the chain) when you're in the small chainring and large cog.

cpach

Definitely eliminate the cable housing as a potential problem first. Think about it--that's where any contamination is going to stay, not on the cable. Wouldn't ever bother replacing a cable and not the housing unless the cable had broken for some reason and shifting was otherwise good before.

corrado33

Unless the cable rusts, in that case both things have a bunch of contamination! Although I have... "successfully" cleaned a wal-mart bike shifter cable with a bit of sandpaper and some lube down the housing. Not ideal... but not worth replacing.