RubeRad

Yes, those are LIMIT screws, they just set a hard stop to the derailleur's max movement on both ends, it has nothing to do with how it moves when it is between the limits.

Also by all means clean and lube. But usually cable will pull derailleurs around just fine, but if they are dirty or need lube, they will be slow to retract when the cable is slackened. As the old saying goes, you can't push a rope...

bikerbobbbb

No rubbing on the kickstand. It's a double kickstand, angles back. That's connected there, but everything's separate.

I'll try the shifter cable next. I might be able to do that and get some results without knowing much about shifting. I wasn't expecting to have to start learning it yet. Rear wheel is still an issue and gets really noticeable when I try to turn the wheel but the brake keeps grabbing it.
If the cable experimentation doesn't work and the shifter stops working, I can leave it in the middle gear. I tend to just use the right hand/rear shifter anyway so that shouldn't be too painful.
For sure, the front derailleur doesn't touch at all on the left/inner side of the chain. I don't think it does on the right... It would make a noise, but it must occasionally bump, and once in a while enough to bump the chain back down. Or both sides are clear and the chain angle front to back moves it off the largest chain ring, back down to the middle.


What is the single screw on the front of the front derailleur frame bar attachment? That adjusts tension on the shifter, right? But that's tension pulling the shifter back toward the bike frame, ie to the smallest cog?

RubeRad

If you have a screw on the 'front of the front derailleur frame bar attachment', separate from the high-and low-limit screws, it sounds to me like that is the bolt holding the derailleur onto the frame. Not an adjustment at all.

Cable tension adjustment for a FD is most probably a barrel adjuster where the cable exits the shifter, unless stock equipment has been changed out. Screwing the barrel adjuster out of the shifter would be the direction you need (quarter turn at a time). You can even try it out while riding.

jyl

What is stopping you from taking a sponge and soapy water to that derailleur? Believe me, it is a lot more pleasant to work on bike parts that are clean and not clogged with grit and grime. The moving parts actually do function better when they are clean and oiled.

Miele Man

May i suggest that you take a couple of images of your front derailler and bottom bracket shell together with the derailler in the smallest chainring and with the shifter all the way to the smallest position. Do this from the side and at an angle that shows the derailler and the cable. Then we'll know for certain if the cable is too loose.

Cheers

bikerbobbbb

So close... (Haven't read posts since yesterday yet.)

Even with the cable unscrewed, when I push the shifter piece over it *almost* is there. I screwed the cable back on so it's tighter (stays in middle ring, won't go down to the smallest now). I can't use the shifter on the handlebar to push it anymore. It just touches the left side of the chain.

I followed the shifter cable. Noticed the kickstand. The cable does touch the kickstand but just a bit. It must have been that way for years, metal on metal rubbing too. I never noticed any performance issues. I'm thinking this slight push on the cable isn't really enough to affect it though. It's more like pressing on the cable with a finger. The angle of the cable is still nearly straight. I could try removing the kickstand (except it's a pain), but I don't think that will solve this.

I was wondering about options...
Get a new chain ring/crank arm set, but would a new one still have this issue?
Get a new front derailleur, but would a new one still have this issue?
Possibly bend my current front derailleur a bit. If it's touching now, a bend might be enough to push the chain up....

bikerbobbbb

Duh... Maybe now's the time for those left and right extreme screws....

The kickstand metal piece is angled, farther back on the right side where the shifter cable is. The kickstand presses into the rear wheel splash guard. I didn't see a way to move that back easily.

bikerbobbbb

Also sprayed some WD-40 on the shifter pieces there. That seemed to loosen things up a little. No real change, just a little looser.

RubeRad

I keep coming back here waiting for OP to finally say "ok, so I tightened the cable a skosh and now it's fine"

Although as you noticed, manual manipulation of the FD shows it doesn't go all the way out (which means a cable couldn't pull it far enough either), maybe because you screwed the limit screw in too far experimenting with it...

jyl

Loosen the high limit screw as far as it will go without removing it entirely, then try again to move the derailleur to the big chainring.

The kickstand has nothing to do with it.

bikerbobbbb

I'll try the screws tonight I hope.

The tension pulling it back felt tighter than I expected after I unscrewed the cable. That's the front screw controlling that, right?


Successful first steps to front derailleur adjustment. Not what I wanted to do, but a project/skill to come to eventually. And with this I can still ride the bike while I work on it. Low stress.

Doug64

Don't use grease on square BB spindles.

RubeRad

tension is not adjusted with a screw, it's controlled by (a) pulling the cable tight before you secure it with the pinch bolt, and (b) screwing the barrel adjuster in or out.

All this could have been spared if you had gone to youtube and watched any of a million available videos that show up if you search for "adjust front derailleur"

Ronno6

I don't recall anyone asking nor the OP stating if the FD shifted to the large chainring prior to the parts swap........................

jyl

By the way, when you bought the new crankset, did you visually compare it to the old one?

Miele Man

I'll try one more time.

#1 . Shift the front shifter into the lowest gear.

#2 . Take a picture from the SIDE of the bike showing the ENTIRE front derialler AND the CABLE.

Then we can tell you if the cable is too LOOSE.

BTW, a dirty derailler/drivetrain is a LOT HARDER to shift than a clean one.

Cheers

bikerbobbbb

Some signs of success. (Yes, it shifted to the largest chain ring before.)

But not there yet.

Uncoupled the cable. Tried the L and H screws. Those are opposite of what I thought. Still not sure on the names, but the inner/closest to frame controls how far out the derailleur bar goes and vice versa. With the cable off and the inner screw turned and with pressing it over by hand, it did jump to the largest chain ring. So I'm hopeful I can adjust the cable and screws for that.

And the barrel adjuster. I think mine's up by the hand shifter part. I was wondering how that should be before working on anything.

trailangel

corrado33

Ok. I'm going to give you the most comprehensive reply I can be bothered to type.

Let's start with the cable "uncoupled."

The "L" screw will adjust the position of the derailleur when the cable is "uncoupled." You want to adjust this position so that the chain will shift into the smallest chainring, but not shift past it and knock off the chain. This adjustment has NO effect on whether or not the derailleur will shift to the biggest chainring.

Now, screw IN your barrel adjuster. Yes, it's on your shifter on your handlebars. Now, with the shifter on the handlebars in the "1" position (or the "Low" position), pull the cable tight and "couple" it to the derailleur. Before you try to shift, unscrew the "H" screw on the derailleur. Unscrew it until it almost falls out. This screw, along with the cable tension, determines if you can shift to your biggest chainring.

Now, try to shift. Does it shift from the smallest to the middle ring well? Does it hesitate? Does it shift to the big chainring? If the answer to the first or third question is "No." then turn the barrel adjuster. You're going to turn it COUNTERCLOCKWISE, as if you were unscrewing a bolt or taking off a lid to a jar. Try turning that a bunch and see if it shifts then. If it OVERSHIFTS, so it pushes the chain past the big ring, screw in the "H" screw until it doesn't do that anymore.

RubeRad

Since you've got the cable disconnected entirely, you should take this opportunity to screw the barrel adjuster all the way in. You don't want to go to all the trouble of getting the cable clamped back into the derailleur and start to increase tension by unscrewing the barrel and find it falls out before you can go far enough.

bikerbobbbb

Here's the post someone was waiting for...

I messed with the front derailleur section on my bike tonight and got it on the largest chain ring finally.


Figured I'd give it another try.
Messed with what I think is the barrel adjuster on the handlebar. No idea how I left that. I was thinking least, medium, or highest might be the best place to start. I could tell which twisting direction was doing what, although I imagine it's moving slightly tightening or loosening. But I wanted to work on the cable so that small amount wouldn't matter much.

I swear the two H L limiter screws behaved differently. After the cable was popped off, adjusting the outermost screw made more sense. Cable unlatched, manually pushing the little mechanism, twisting that outermost screw. I actually realized after the chain was too far out and fell into the chain ring outer guard, that I had adjusted it too much.

Royal pain though. Bloody fingers -- Derailleur cable has two frayed string coming out of it, one going up to the bend/slot in the derailleur before it goes down under the frame of the bike. Smashed thumbs from trying to hold that moving mechanism part out.

After I got that part, cable unlatched, farthest part out set apparently, my mind was starting to go, but I figured I almost had it. I realized switching the handlebar part to match the chainring setting would make sense.

Then I tried to adjusted the smallest adjuster setting with the innermost limiter screw. I don't even remember what I did to adjust that, in terms of the mechanism moving and handlebar shifting. It looked good enough though so I tightened the cable back on.

Limiter screws seem to be holding up, not wearing the heads out.
I'm wondering how worn the allen key bolt that holds the shifter cable in place is though.

How it is now -- I can shift up to the largest gear. If I shift down to the middle it won't do it. Another click and it goes down to the smallest chainring. If I shift back up, it will go into the middle chain ring. So I can eventually get to them all.

I heard the constant click sound of the old chain wearing on the new largest chainring I'm pretty sure. My tool replacement parts should show up tomorrow so maybe I can get the chain replacement this weekend. And fix the spokes/dish (tighter spokes on one side pulls the rim in, pushes the hub away).

It's not perfect, but I've got the more powerful chainring now. My legs are out of shape for bike riding and pushing hard, after not being able to push hard before because the chain would slip and from not using the larger gear for a bit now.

Not perfect, probably f-ed up the cable since it's fraying, but I still consider it progress. Even if I end up destroying the front derailleur I'll learn how it works, and that should be something that can be swapped out like the other parts on the bike.

So the next steps (besides replacing that cable) would be figuring out more precisely how it works and how to get the middle gear back. Although replacing the chain and fixing dishing will be a higher priority this weekend I think. Sticking the smallest cog on the rear cassette, being on the largest ring on front, and then having the rear wheel stop on the left brake pad and occasionally having the left pedal arm hit the kickstand was a royal pain too. Add in sticking your thumb to hold the shifter moving mechanism while doing that cruder pedaling with the other arm. Dishing definitely needs to be fixed.

trailangel

Beyond Help

bikerbobbbb

I'll study these posts out more. There's got to be some idiot-proof method for shifting.

Cable disconnected. Then the other pieces...
Rear shifter set on either the smallest or largest cassette cog, depending on what you're working on in the front. Although shifting should work with any combo. All-left or all-right is the most extreme though.
Other pieces....
Position of the handlebar shifter -- Only three options, matching the chain rings.
Position of the barrel adjuster. Least, medium maybe, or highest. This adjustment is so small though I'm not noticing what it's actually doing.
The L and H / innermost outermost limiter screws.
(There's an allen bolt on the spring that tensions that shifter piece mechanism, but that seems plenty tight.)


I got the largest chain ring set first tonight. Adjusting the outermost limiter screw and holding the mechanism out by hand. Handlebar shifter was in the largest ring setting (I think).
Shifting the handlebar thumb lever pulls the cable, increases the tension / would pull cable/mechanism outward, towards the largest chain ring.
Then I adjusted the handlebar to the smallest ring setting, adjusted the innermost limiter screw to get the deraileur bar to move inwards.
Still on that smallest ring, smallest handlebar shifter setting, I pulled the cable as tighest as I could (If I lifted upward, it started moving the mechanism outward, so I pulled down). Got that in place, tightened the allen wrench.


The Freezit (brand?) cable puller / third hand didn't help at all in that position. I'm using a little pair of needlenose pliers to twist the cable around that and pull. So the cable end is twisted and won't slot into the cable puller tool. Plus the tool has to be backwards, not facing me. Pulling with the the wrapped needlenose pliers worked better, but is destroying the cable I think.

Tightened it and it worked fairly well, except for that middle ring setting. Maybe the barrel adjuster will target that now....

Damn those frays though... Sliced up fingertips. I need metal coated gloves.....

bikerbobbbb

I was also thinking it would probably be cheaper and faster long-run to have a bike shop do that repairs, but... If I've done it myself, it's my work. "I" am in the bike that way. The IKEA effect -- I like it more, it's more me, if I build it myself. Plus, before I knew about riding the bike. Now I know more about adjusting the bike and how the bike works. When I was riding the bike tonight after doing the shifting repair/experiment, I was more aware of how the left shifter worked with the front derailleur. And I was more aware of how ridiculous it was that I had thought sometimes if I pedalled harder that the shifter cable might brake -- If the position isn't changing on the front chainrings, the cable isn't going to move, probably no way it could brake... and pedalling hard or soft has nothing to do with that.

This is also an opportunity to feel how the bike works with different settings. And how to learn to ride the bike with different settings. With the chain slipping I've trained myself how to react when that happens (which is just to freeze and keep the feet solid because there's no resistance when it slips... or maybe the chain fell off or snapped, but there might not be any resistance to push down against.) On the negative side, all this is keeping my awareness on the bike, less on the environment around me (like cars and people, objects...).

jyl

If you've frayed the cable, replace it with a new one ($3).

When you install the new cable,
- Clean the derailleur. Dirty derailleurs do not work as well as clean ones, because they don't pivot as smoothly.
- Screw the barrel adjuster all the way in, then back it off two turns. Put the shifter in the low gear (small chainring) position.
- Pull the cable through the derailleur cable clamp so that there is no slack in the cable, and tighten the clamp bolt. You do not have to pull the cable so hard that it starts moving the derailleur cage, and you should be able to simply pull it with your fingers. If you do use pliers to pull the cable, then hold the cable at least a foot from the clamp, so you fray it at a part that you'll cut off later anyway.
- Adjust the barrel adjuster until the bike shifts reliably from big ring to middle ring, and from little ring to middle ring.
- Adjust limit screws so the bike can shift to the big and little rings, but the derailleur doesn't move so far that the chain drops off the chainring.

I suspect you pulled so hard on the cable when clamping it, that it has too much tension, so when you shift from big to middle, the cage isn't moving far enough inward to complete the shift. Combine with friction in the derailleur pivots from grit and no lubrication, and perhaps friction in the cable housing.

By the way, what kind of shifter do you have?. Let's see a picture.