Chain less bikes
 

any one out there have any dealings with Shimano Alfine systems , and could tell me where to get a complete install kit , and what bikes it could be best used on , i have a giant kronos i want to upgrade , any help plz ********** thanks !!!!!!!!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5MjJqa5rbA

You can get pretty much the same performance with the Shimano Alfine 8 speed build into you rear wheel and your front chain wheel and no front derailleur or your front double chain wheel and the front derailleur (16 speeds). I've done the 8 speed version and it works well. If you do not want to do the modification mentioned, then your bike shop can do it for you. I seem to remember that my shop charged $350. two years ago.

Here's a short list of threads here dealing with Alfine hubs:

https://www.google.com/search?q=site....0.VhmGhDxduIs

Chain less? Shaft or Belt drive?

good question

Looks like a shaft drive in the video.

I don't think anybody is making retrofit kits for shaft drives (without a lot of customization). There are a few people that retrofit belt drives onto bikes, but they often require modifying chainstays or seatstays to allow for an unbroken chain. Perhaps folding bikes and bikes with single stays?

I have an Incline Cross 7 shaft drive frame that I was going to play around with some.

The bottom bracket is oversized.
The right rear dropout is custom shaped.
The left rear dropout descends more than typically found on chain drive bikes.

It appears as if the shaft is made by Sussex.
Sussex Enterprises - Innovative bicycle components for Shimano internal hubs. Shaft drive bicycles, chainless bicycles, road bicycles, mountain bikes.

I certainly think there would be advantages of a shaft drive for a simple town bike. Whether we'll see more of them, I don't know.

You can't use a shaft drive or belt drive on that bike. Unless you make major alterations to the frame.

Here are a few photos of the Incline Cross 7 with Sussex Shaft Drive. Old Trek 1000 for comparison. NDS in some photos to show fame details.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=522487 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=522488 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=522489 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=522490 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=522491 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=522492

Note the oversized, narrow bottom bracket with the chainstays hitting above the bottom bracket.
Right dropout designed for shaft drive to bolt to it. Left dropout designed so it descends below the normal position (so shaft drive goes parallel to the chainstay).

I have also seen older bikes where the shaftdrive actually replaces one of the chainstays.

Anyway, adding the shaft drive to an existing frame would be a major endeavor. Better to buy a fully assembled bike, or build 100% from scratch.

Nothing I can really help with on the original poster's questions, but my mom has a 90's shaft drive bike. It works acceptably. Having put miles on both, chain bikes are much better UNLESS its the very specific case of a rider who rides with a long dress or fancy slacks or something. Even then it seems only well suited to light duty use. Does not feel like its happy going up steep hills, or with any kind of mashing. Specifically I feel a lot of flex in it, and it shifts roughly under any kind of power.

So basically you're getting less weight, more gear range, higher tq limit, more reliable, easier to service, cheaper to manufacture, and of course better parts availability. Funny thing, it took me using a shaft drive bike for me to realize how awesome chains are. People take it for granted but its a really elegant power transfer system. Some early cars even used chains in the drive system and they did fine. Harrier jump jets used chain to direct their ducts. Tons of other mission critical uses I'm sure too. I mean think about how often you break a chain.. long live the chain.

How many speeds?

The Sussex drive is listed working with the Nexus/Alfine 3/7/8. I don't know about the 11??? So one should be able to get better gearing ratios.

Flex? Where? Maybe frame design? Shifting differently from a chain bike, one may just have to get used to it, but plenty of people have been using IGH bikes for more than a half a century.

Nonetheless, chains are very efficient.

I don't remember the maker or model but a couple of years ago I got the opportunity to ride a shaft driven, 8-speed Shimano IGH (Nexus I think?) bike belonging to one of my bike club members. Even on a level road the thing felt sluggish and heavy, almost like riding through sand. I wasn't impressed.

What do the ubiquitous single speed beach bikes feel like?

Almost as sluggish and not as heavy.

Felt like it was the drive shaft that was springy. That can't be good for efficiency, even if you're not a masher. Also the bike felt twice as heavy as it should have been, but we're talking a 30yo design. Maybe the new ones are lighter and better. Speaking of mission critical uses for chains, every parking lot anyplace has valves and pistons relying on them to not crash and burn.. Oh add one more fun fact, the Toranado's design has a chain handling 100% of that big block torque! Worked fine.

Humans as engines are tricky. We're quite torquey considering how little power most of us make. Shaft drive bicycles are, due to clearance issues, forced to use shafts that are fairly long and slender. They simply wind up under pedalling torque.
Then shaft drive bicycles are forced to use a bevel gear at each end.
And compared to chains, bevel gears are VERY lossy.

Hmmm,

Maybe I'll prioritize building up the Incline Cross 7, although I'm not much of a MTB fan, so we'll see what it is like. I had originally planned on transplanting the drive into a custom frame, which is still a possibility, but maybe I should get it working first.

I do know about torque peaks. I do low cadence mashing, especially on standing hill climbs.

I wonder if the large spindle bottom bracket technology would apply to the shaft drives.

thanks for the all info .... are the internal hubs better , or faster than tradition gears and chains

Both.

so the internal hubs with the chain drive are better , faster and lighter than traditional gears and chain drives , **********??

i have read that belt drives are not better they just give a different options , i think if someone really tried they could make a better drive shaft system you might need two really skinny wheels in the back so it could mimic a car set up hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Depends on your priorities.

IGHs need less maintenance.
They're often heavier - although that usually isn't particularly important.
They tend to have less of an overall range than what derailer gears can give you.
And/or bigger steps between the gears.
IGHs tend to have greater losses than derailer gear drivetrains.
Some discussion exists about the finer details of this comparison.
IE, Who'd "win" in a comparison between an IGH and a derailer gear drivetrain at a certain level of contamination?

Not as simple. "Different" rather than "better". Choice depends on usage profile and user preferences.

"Faster" doesn't make sense. It'd depend mainly on the overall gearing ratio/rider ability, secondly on which internal losses there are in that gear.

No. But details depends on overall drivetrain setup.

Belt drives are great if you're a chainophobe.

If you're able to deal with chains and lubes every now an then, belt drives are functionally comparable, but no better than chains.

Bad idea. Well, at least very mechanically challenging. Doesn't solve the issue of a long and slender drive axle and the lossy bevel gears.
(tight)Dual rear setups ride and corner funnily.

Dynamic Bicycles ,, Buy and find out 1st hand, yourself. Dynamic Chainless Bicycles and Bike Share

ok so in the north east where it snows rains and they put salt on the roads and the bike gets really nasty and beat up- the internal gears would be better , or just another option that we could all support and maybe in the future it would surpass the traditional systems **********?!!!!!!!

Depends on your goal.

If your goal is a bike that requires the least maintenance in dirty conditions, an internal gear hub (IGH) and either a belt drive or a fully enclosed chain (chain case) would be good. But IGH are heavy and most don't offer a wide gearing range with small steps between gears. Belt drives have higher mechanical drag. Chain cases are heavy and make it difficult to repair a flat tire. These negatives are significant.

Good idea since most cyclists ride in salt slush and don't maintain their bikes. And it's not like internal gear hubs have been given a fair try in the bicycle market over the last 100 years.