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SS -> IGH Conversion Question

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SS -> IGH Conversion Question

Old 05-18-16, 02:58 PM
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SS -> IGH Conversion Question

I have a Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno that I am looking to convert to an IGH in the future. The current rear wheel is 120mm OLD. I am a little afraid of respacing/cold-setting/spreading the frame because it will break compatibility with the two sets of SS wheels I do have, and am worried it will shorten the chainstay length a little (I usually ride with panniers and don't want the rear any further forward). Seems there are 120mm 3 speed hubs out there from S-A and Shimano, but I could be misreading/misconstruing documentation somewhere.

Are there any 120mm OLD 5 speed hubs out there? Sturmey-Archer's docs make me think the answer is no (128mm might be the closest?), but you guys know more than me.
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Old 05-18-16, 03:16 PM
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Yes. I did this with a Kilo which also had 120mm spacing and it worked just fine. I think the hub was an SRF5. OLD on that hub was 119mm.
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Old 05-18-16, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bigbenaugust View Post
I have a Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno that I am looking to convert to an IGH in the future. The current rear wheel is 120mm OLD. I am a little afraid of respacing/cold-setting/spreading the frame because it will break compatibility with the two sets of SS wheels I do have, and am worried it will shorten the chainstay length a little (I usually ride with panniers and don't want the rear any further forward). Seems there are 120mm 3 speed hubs out there from S-A and Shimano, but I could be misreading/misconstruing documentation somewhere.

Are there any 120mm OLD 5 speed hubs out there? Sturmey-Archer's docs make me think the answer is no (128mm might be the closest?), but you guys know more than me.
Sounds like a great project. You shouldn't have any problems going to 126 or 130. Good luck.
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Old 05-18-16, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bigbenaugust View Post
I am a little afraid of respacing/cold-setting/spreading the frame because it will break compatibility with the two sets of SS wheels I do have, and am worried it will shorten the chainstay length a little
I wouldn't worry much. Going from 120mm to 128mm on a 432mm chainstay will lessen the clearance by 0.68mm or about 26 thousandths of an inch.
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Old 05-18-16, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
Yes. I did this with a Kilo which also had 120mm spacing and it worked just fine. I think the hub was an SRF5. OLD on that hub was 119mm.
See, this is where it gets confusing to me. BD used to sell the Kilo WT5 which had a X-RF5(W) on it, and its specs claim it's 120mm. You did a similar conversion with a Kilo. But I think 127 is the narrowest I see on S-A's current models.
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Old 05-18-16, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
I wouldn't worry much. Going from 120mm to 128mm on a 432mm chainstay will lessen the clearance by 0.68mm or about 26 thousandths of an inch.
Now THERE is the trigonometry I didn't have time to figure out, and why I asked!

But I'd rather be able to keep the SS wheels I have, too.
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Old 05-18-16, 06:38 PM
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I put an SA XRD-5 on my daily commuter spreading it out 5 mm on each side to 130. It took a while to iron out the new chain line but other than that, there was no apparent effect on the position of my panniers. The compatibility with your SS wheels is your big issue and I don't think you will ever satisfactorily resolve it if you spread your frame. My suggestion is to drop the idea of a 5 speed and buy a 3 speed 120 OLD hub. This is what I wish I had done in the first place and am now strongly considering reverting to. The hills in our area are not all that challenging and I find that I almost never use any gears but the middle 3.
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Old 05-18-16, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
I put an SA XRD-5 on my daily commuter spreading it out 5 mm on each side to 130. It took a while to iron out the new chain line but other than that, there was no apparent effect on the position of my panniers. The compatibility with your SS wheels is your big issue and I don't think you will ever satisfactorily resolve it if you spread your frame. My suggestion is to drop the idea of a 5 speed and buy a 3 speed 120 OLD hub. This is what I wish I had done in the first place and am now strongly considering reverting to. The hills in our area are not all that challenging and I find that I almost never use any gears but the middle 3.
Interesting, thanks for the surprisingly local advice.
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Old 05-18-16, 08:00 PM
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I did the SA 5 speed conversion on a Kilo WT a while back and the hub I used was 120mm spaced because I didn't spread the frame. The new 5 speed models are redesigned and apparently much better built from what I've read. They've got a 4 speed hub that is spaced at 120mm but the first gear is direct drive and everything does up from there so that might not work with your current chainring and the cog that comes with it.
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Old 05-19-16, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbenaugust View Post
See, this is where it gets confusing to me. BD used to sell the Kilo WT5 which had a X-RF5(W) on it, and its specs claim it's 120mm. You did a similar conversion with a Kilo. But I think 127 is the narrowest I see on S-A's current models.

If you can't get one of the older hubs with the smaller spacing, I'd bet a dollar you can re-space the new ones. I've had to do that once or twice too.

That said 120 to 127mm is only 3.5mm on each side. You won't even need to cold set, it'll work fine.
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Old 05-19-16, 10:30 AM
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I converted a buddy's ss/fg bike to 5sp using an Iggy wheelset from Soma: Iggy 5-Speed 700c Rear Wheel | SOMA Fabrications

The 5sp rear is sold at 120mm OLD. I don't remember if the rear comes with a shifter or not, so check that out if you go this route -- nice thing about SA is that there are multiple shifter options: downtube, bar, or bar end mount.
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Old 05-19-16, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
I converted a buddy's ss/fg bike to 5sp using an Iggy wheelset from Soma: Iggy 5-Speed 700c Rear Wheel | SOMA Fabrications

The 5sp rear is sold at 120mm OLD. I don't remember if the rear comes with a shifter or not, so check that out if you go this route -- nice thing about SA is that there are multiple shifter options: downtube, bar, or bar end mount.
I knew there were off-the-shelf 3sp options, but not 5. Thanks!
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Old 05-19-16, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbenaugust View Post
I knew there were off-the-shelf 3sp options, but not 5. Thanks!

The hub on that is an SRF5w, which has a wider gear range. IMO, too wide. I had that hub for a while and I never used the highest and lowest gear, so it was really no better than a 3 speed for me. If it is very hilly where you are you may get more use.
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Old 05-19-16, 11:01 AM
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3 speed such as what S-A provides is made in a narrow width for folding bike maker Brompton,

the 28 hole hubshell can be replaced with a 36 hole for larger wheel rims.


I get 6 speeds with a 2 speed planetary gearbox crankset.
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Old 05-19-16, 11:20 AM
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And then there's the Shimano v. Sturmey-Archer argument...
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Old 05-19-16, 03:59 PM
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The new Sturmey-Archer RX-RF5 is a native 135mm OLD. It has three 6mm locknuts on the non-drive side. If you replace them with a single old school 3mm Sturmey locknut, the OLD will be 120. You will then have to build the wheel with a little dish, of course.

I recently paid $106USD+shipping for an RX-RF5 complete kit including the hub, cog, anti-rotation washers, axle nuts, shift cable stop, twist-grip shifter and shift cable with full length housing.

Sturmey's 8-speed comes in a 120mm OLD as well. You'd almost certainly have to change your crank to use one, though.
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Old 05-19-16, 04:28 PM
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.
...I have a project in the line up waiting for me to build the wheel using one of these, which you can space at 120mm or 130mm. It's only two speeds, but it gets pretty good reviews as a solid product and it shifts with a simple kickback.
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Old 05-19-16, 06:46 PM
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Hi, Jack!

....I have a project in the line up waiting for me to build the wheel using one of these...it shifts with a simple kickback.
Uh, that's the SRAM Automatix and actually, it shifts itself based on rotational speed. The kick-back shift two-speed on today's market is the Sturmey-Archer S2 series.
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Old 05-19-16, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post
Hi, Jack!



Uh, that's the SRAM Automatix and actually, it shifts itself based on rotational speed. The kick-back shift two-speed on today's market is the Sturmey-Archer S2 series.
....right. It's been sitting over in the corner so long I forgot. There are a couple of interesting online resources on how you can pull it apart and reset where you want it to shift, if the shift happens either at too high or too low a cadence for your personal tastes. I just need to get the wheel built, first.
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Old 05-20-16, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post
The new Sturmey-Archer RX-RF5 is a native 135mm OLD. It has three 6mm locknuts on the non-drive side. If you replace them with a single old school 3mm Sturmey locknut, the OLD will be 120. You will then have to build the wheel with a little dish, of course.

I recently paid $106USD+shipping for an RX-RF5 complete kit including the hub, cog, anti-rotation washers, axle nuts, shift cable stop, twist-grip shifter and shift cable with full length housing.

Sturmey's 8-speed comes in a 120mm OLD as well. You'd almost certainly have to change your crank to use one, though.
Many Sturmey Archer hubs are very versatile when it comes to adapting to frame spacing. Drum and disc brake models have less flexibility here, but the brakeless models have a wide variance of possibilities merely by adding or subtracting spacers.
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Old 05-20-16, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
....right. It's been sitting over in the corner so long I forgot. There are a couple of interesting online resources on how you can pull it apart and reset where you want it to shift, if the shift happens either at too high or too low a cadence for your personal tastes. I just need to get the wheel built, first.
There are some peeps over in Folding Bikes who have played around with these, too, if you're looking for more resources. I've only used the S/A S2C hubs on a couple of builds and love the kickback action, always been hesitant to go with an automatic version. But people seem to like them, once the shift speed is dialed in, so...
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Old 05-20-16, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbenaugust View Post
Now THERE is the trigonometry I didn't have time to figure out, and why I asked!

But I'd rather be able to keep the SS wheels I have, too.

Buy the IGH that you like best, regardless of it's OLD.

Set the frame accordingly.

Add an appropriately sized washer/spacer under the locknut on each side of your SS wheels to bring their OLD up to match that of the IGH.
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Old 05-20-16, 09:57 AM
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The 2sp kick-shift hubs intrigue me, but I am thinking 3- or 5sp at this point.

There are some off-the-shelf Nexus 3sp wheels available. If I am getting something built, I'd go with an S-A hub.

The bike is currently 39x16, I figured I would want direct drive a little lower, so maybe 39x18.
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Old 01-21-17, 05:29 AM
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I am going to resurrect this thread to say that the good people at Soma Fabrications are now making prebuilt 3,5,and 8sp S-A rear wheels in 26" and 700mm:

Wheels, Hubs + Spokes | SOMA Fabrications (search for Iggy at left)

All you need after that is a shifter, and they sell S-A thumb shifters too. I am strongly considering this as a birthday present.

Last year when I started this thread, for prebuilt IGH wheels it was QBP Shimano 3/8sp or Soma S-A 3 speeds only. So there are a few more options now.
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Old 01-21-17, 10:39 AM
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Merry Sales Imports is a Big company, wholesaler , to bike shops, Plus they get wholesale Plus Retail selling thru the SOMA website.

they get stuff that Rivendale Retails too ..



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