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Compatible derailleur with Velo Orange triple

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Compatible derailleur with Velo Orange triple

Old 05-19-16, 06:57 PM
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hilltowner
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Compatible derailleur with Velo Orange triple

I need help finding a derailleur that works with the Velo Orange triple. Presently I'm pretty well flummoxed. I started with the assumption that a CX-70 would work based on Jan Heine's say so here. Everything he said was true except the fact that with this particular crank (at least) the inner reach of travel was insufficient to unship the chain from the middle to inner ring even with the limit screw completely backed off. I called VO and asked them to tell me what the compatible derailleur would be and was told a Tiagra 4703 Triple was recommended. I've just mounted the Tiagra and while the inner reach seems to be sufficient the cage seems too short to clear the bottom of the chain when its riding on the inner ring (a 24).

I am not troubled by indexing problems since I am using friction shifters. I just want a derailleur that will work and not produce chain rub which will drive me insane. Does anyone else have a VO triple and what are you using?

Last edited by hilltowner; 05-19-16 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 05-19-16, 07:16 PM
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hilltowner, I use an older RX100 triple FD to shift a 24-34-42 crank set, the rear is an 11-28 7S. What is the clearance between the FD cage and the 48T chain ring? Try for about 2 mm. If too high the shifting will degrade slightly and / or you'll have interference. It is also possible that the CX-70 would've worked with a longer BB spindle.

Brad
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Old 05-19-16, 07:31 PM
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I asked a similar question of one of the folks at Rivendell Bikes and they told me that they use this FD-M781 series derailleur on all of their triples: Shimano Deore XT front derailer - 17160 The 24 tooth difference on your crankset is fairly large, many triples have only a 20 tooth range.
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Old 05-19-16, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bradtx View Post
hilltowner, I use an older RX100 triple FD to shift a 24-34-42 crank set, the rear is an 11-28 7S. What is the clearance between the FD cage and the 48T chain ring? Try for about 2 mm. If too high the shifting will degrade slightly and / or you'll have interference. It is also possible that the CX-70 would've worked with a longer BB spindle.

Brad
I've thought about spindle length as a variable in this and the CX-70 has a longer cage, but first I tried for as short a spindle as possible to keep the Q factor down. I don't have the confidence though that spending another $30.00 on a longer spindle bb would be the answer. I guess I'd like to find a way to stop throwing money at the problem and continue to hope someone else has encountered this exact situation and can give me some guidance. I've got the fd as low as I can to still clear the outer ring but it just isn't low enough to keep the chain from rubbing on the bar at the bottom of the cage. I've seen two different images appearing on searches for this model derailleur. One looks like the style I have which actually seems to be quite different than the other which seems to have more clearance. Did Shimano recently modify the shape of the cage on this derailleur? Here is the shorter one: http://cdn.modernbike.com/Product_Im...0108035759.jpg (like the one I have) and here is a longer (looking) one: http://media.chainreactioncycles.com...id=500&hei=505 The cage on the longer one is quite similar in appearance to the FD-M781 that dsbrantjr mentions.

Last edited by hilltowner; 05-19-16 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 05-19-16, 08:56 PM
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hilltowner, The only change I am aware of to the Tiagra FD was between the 4403 and the 4503, IIRC, when the backside of the cage was lowered and the 4503 required a 12T minimum difference between the middle and outer chain rings.

I suppose a steep seat tube angle could also cause this problem. I wonder if the two cages can be switched between the two FDs, I hate for anyone to spend more than required to fix a problem.

Brad

PS Another possibility is that some of the low stop area of the CX-70 could be filed away for more clearance.
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Old 05-19-16, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by bradtx View Post
I suppose a steep seat tube angle could also cause this problem.
The bike, a Soma Grand Randonneur, has a 73 deg. seat tube which is pretty standard I think. I'd like to think the 4703 the VO tech told me should work would have been one looking like the longer/lower cage version. There appears to be about a 1 cm. difference between where the bar crosses on one vs. the other. I'm calling Modern Bike tomorrow and asking them if there are two versions of the derailleur out there. Perhaps the one I have is a newer style. Chain Reaction is "clearing out" 4703s that look like the longer version.

Last edited by hilltowner; 05-19-16 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 05-19-16, 09:49 PM
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Possibly this:
Alpina-D Front Derailleurs
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Old 05-19-16, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
That was one of the derailleurs I was considering. Ironically the VO Tech dismissed it as a "recaged Microshift" and told me to get the 4703.
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Old 05-19-16, 10:41 PM
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Looks to me more like a rebranded Shimano.
I have it and it worked good on 48-38-28. Road shifter.
I forget if you have friction, road index or Mountain Index.
The IRD is a road Index or friction.
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Old 05-19-16, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by hilltowner View Post
The bike, a Soma Grand Randonneur, has a 73 deg. seat tube which is pretty standard I think...
The thought about the ST angle was pretty improbable, barely worth the mention.

Brad
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Old 05-19-16, 11:25 PM
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Measuring your chainline with a ruler could help confirm whether spindle length might be part of the problem. The distance between the frame's centerline and the middle chainring of a road triple should be 45 mm or thereabouts. Is your chainline less than that?

<EDIT> I just looked up specs on the Tiagra FD-4703 derailleur and it's rated for a 20-tooth capacity. Shimano does tend to rate things pretty conservatively, but exceeding that rating by 4 teeth might be cutting it too close. If your small chainring has 24 teeth (as mentioned above) and your big ring has 48 teeth (as listed on the Velo Orange web site), you need a derailleur that can handle a 24-tooth difference.

Last edited by SkyDog75; 05-19-16 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 05-20-16, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SkyDog75 View Post
Measuring your chainline with a ruler could help confirm whether spindle length might be part of the problem. The distance between the frame's centerline and the middle chainring of a road triple should be 45 mm or thereabouts. Is your chainline less than that?

<EDIT> I just looked up specs on the Tiagra FD-4703 derailleur and it's rated for a 20-tooth capacity. Shimano does tend to rate things pretty conservatively, but exceeding that rating by 4 teeth might be cutting it too close. If your small chainring has 24 teeth (as mentioned above) and your big ring has 48 teeth (as listed on the Velo Orange web site), you need a derailleur that can handle a 24-tooth difference.
45 mm almost exactly. I'm heading down to one of the LBS with the bike. Kinda reached the limit of my knowledge on this. Local wrench says some derailleurs are "designed to rub." If that's the case with this one, I definitely have the wrong derailleur. I don't think I could live with that as the expected design.
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Old 05-20-16, 10:32 AM
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My touring triple granny gears sit just over the edge of the fixed cup.. I use old flat sided cage FDs ..

long cage MTB RD.
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Old 05-20-16, 02:08 PM
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Yep, the Deore FD is tour friend here. Meant to work with smaller big chainrings, cage dips enough not to drag on a 23 small ring.
An Ultegra 6603 kinda worked on my 50-34-24 but wasn't consistent. The Deore just...works. Zero drama.
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Old 05-20-16, 05:38 PM
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The solution was a 9-speed generation XTR. Seems to work pretty well with a long cage that has room to spare. Anyone want an only-mounted-never-ridden Tiagra 4703 cheap?
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