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Cogs play in cassette assembly

Old 06-03-16, 04:29 PM
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Paravia
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Cogs play in cassette assembly

Hi,
I have a Tiagra 10sp cassette, noticed some rotational play in the cogs. So I removed it thinking it was the lock nut not tight, but I have the cassette here in my hands (not on the wheel), and if I hold the large cog, the 2nd large moves a little. If I hold the 2nd cog, the 3rd has no play. Finally, if I hold the first three, all the others (4th to 7th) move as a whole +/- 1mm.

Can such a cassette be still usable?? Is it normal to have this play between cogs when the cassette is not installed?
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Old 06-03-16, 04:39 PM
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Normal.
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Old 06-03-16, 05:35 PM
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Some hubs require an additional spacer when used with 10 speed cassettes. (like most 8-10 speed Shimano)
Do you have the spacer installed first?
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Old 06-03-16, 05:56 PM
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The cassette is in my hands, it is not installed on the hub. The cogs are riveted together, it is not a spacer issue. There was no play between the cogs two weeks ago, there is play now.
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Old 06-03-16, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Paravia View Post
The cassette is in my hands, it is not installed on the hub. The cogs are riveted together, it is not a spacer issue. There was no play between the cogs two weeks ago, there is play now.
It doesn't matter if it's loose in your hand unless you have a very strange bicycle.
The lock ring cinches the cogs down when ON THE BIKE.
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Old 06-03-16, 06:15 PM
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Okay thanks, let me rephrase the entire question. When you buy a new cassette, and you grab it in your hands, do some of the cogs have a 1-2 mm rotational play??
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Old 06-03-16, 06:24 PM
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He is saying there is rotational play....not side to side.
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Old 06-03-16, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Paravia View Post
Okay thanks, let me rephrase the entire question. When you buy a new cassette, and you grab it in your hands, do some of the cogs have a 1-2 mm rotational play??
When the cassette system was first introduced, the cogs weren't even riveted together, so they would not only have rotational play, they would fall out of your hand until you installed them on the wheel. Likewise, even if there is play when the cassette is not installed, it goes away once mounted; the splines keep them from moving.
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Old 06-03-16, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Paravia View Post
Okay thanks, let me rephrase the entire question. When you buy a new cassette, and you grab it in your hands, do some of the cogs have a 1-2 mm rotational play??

The smallest 2 or 3 go flying across the room. With the largest bunch, it depends.
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Old 06-03-16, 06:41 PM
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It does not seem right to me. Two/three cogs have no play, then four cogs move. Tomorrow I'm going to take the cassette off from my other bike and check. I have never bought a cassette hence the question. Anyway there are three long rivets along the entire assembly, seems like they shouldn't move around....
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Old 06-03-16, 06:43 PM
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The smallest two are not riveted and fall in your hands. The others, some move some don't. It depends on what?
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Old 06-03-16, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Paravia View Post
It does not seem right to me. Two/three cogs have no play, then four cogs move. Tomorrow I'm going to take the cassette off from my other bike and check. I have never bought a cassette hence the question. Anyway there are three long rivets along the entire assembly, seems like they shouldn't move around....
Once installed, I generally leave it up to the freehub body's splines and the lockring to keep individual cogs from rotating.
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Old 06-03-16, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Paravia View Post
When you buy a new cassette, and you grab it in your hands, do some of the cogs have a 1-2 mm rotational play??
It's unusual to have any rotational play which would mean that the rivets are loose. This shouldn't be a problem though since as mentioned by others the splines keep everything from rotating so just tighten up the lockring properly and ride to your hearts content. I have drilled out cassette rivets a number of times to replace cogs and have never had any problems. I would only worry if your freehub body is aluminum which tend to get chewed up a bit by loose cog splines.

Last edited by Crankycrank; 06-03-16 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 06-03-16, 06:48 PM
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Why shimano would rivet them together then, seem strange some have play some don't.
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Old 06-03-16, 06:51 PM
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So how much rotational play do you get after locking all of the cogs onto the freeehub ribs?
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Old 06-03-16, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Paravia View Post
Why shimano would rivet them together then, seem strange some have play some don't.
My guess is for some cassettes that riveting is a cost cutting measure to ease packaging or ?? but it really doesn't matter much. If it really bothers you contact Shimano or the place where you bought it as Shimano likes to get back any defective product as if their National Security depends on it and they'll make sure you get a good replacement.
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Old 06-03-16, 07:01 PM
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Maybe it's time to go Sram Red.

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Old 06-03-16, 07:03 PM
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I didn't notice the play when it was on, I have new wheels coming in (upgrade) so tonight I just removed the cassette and noticed the play when it was in my hands. The third cog has no play, why the fourth is wobbly? It doesn't seem right hence the question. I know the spline in the hub will help keeping them together but I thought it shouldn't be play in the first place, since they are riveted.
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Old 06-03-16, 07:08 PM
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My Tiagra cassette costs exactly 10 times less 😀 yeah maybe that's the reason for the wobbling
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Old 06-03-16, 07:10 PM
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The rivets are only there as a matter of convenience; like how some ball bearings are held in retainers. You can remove either and the assemblies involved will function just fine without them. If it really bothers you, replace the cassette if you want, but functionally you shouldn't worry about it.
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Old 06-03-16, 07:16 PM
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Okay I will put it back once I get the wheels thanks for the opinion. The two smallest cogs are not even attached so I agree it's the hub splines that do the job. Still, there shouldn't be some random play like that, this product is crap.
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Old 06-03-16, 07:21 PM
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If it is inexpensive, and works fine *on the bike*, then it's not crap. Who cares what it does off the bike?
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Old 06-04-16, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jyl View Post
If it is inexpensive, and works fine *on the bike*, then it's not crap. Who cares what it does off the bike?
That's what I think too. Do you really want to pay extra for a feature that has no benefit?
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Old 06-04-16, 06:41 AM
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Sure enough I disassembled my other road bike cassette (also Shimano) this morning, and cogs have no play whatsoever between them.

Which means that my cassette evidently took some battering (?) and some of the cogs holes thru which the rivets go have enlarged somehow.

Even though it works, on the bike, it is not as supposed to be and I will replace it since it is not expensive. However, a five months cassette shouldn't be in these conditions (if it was better quality).
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Old 06-04-16, 06:53 AM
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I took all the rivets out of mine (and probably wollowed out the rivet holes while doing it). They have a ton of play off the bike. As said several times, it does not matter. Cogs do not support each other rotationaly. If you want to waste your money replacing things that are neither broken nor scarred, it's your choice of course. You say they are not "supposed" to be that way. Mine are "supposed to be" that way.

If it was loose when mounted, then yes, maybe the lock ring wasn't tight or as mentioned the spacer may have been missing (I doubt that would cause it to be loose actually). But loose rivets are completely irrelevant.

Last edited by Flinstone; 06-04-16 at 07:41 AM.
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