Hub talk
 

Specifically, the Shimano Deore line.

So I need to upgrade my wheelset on th Masi. The rear developed linear cracks and is in for warranty. Likely I'll get the exact same wheel. Pff. Been there done that on another bike.

After doing some research I've decided to not go King/ Wood/ White, high for serviceability reasons.

The plan is handbuilt, shimano/ dt/ mavic combo. Balparking the set at 700 ish, depending on hub selection.

I want durability and rollability since it's likely weight will go up a bit. I will be going to 36 holes.

My question is this, which hubs lean more race, vs which ones lean more strength? Standard Deore will run me 100/pr. But the XTR can run up to 300/pr.

What differs in the slx and saint hubs? Help:eek:

My expectation of Shimano parts, which is generally realized, is that they are all highly reliable but get lighter and more expensive as you go up the range. If you can afford the XTR hubs, I'd use them. However, you mention a Masi and the XTR hubs are MTB (135mm rear). Does Masi make MTBs or are you thinking of using a MTB hub on a road bike?

Deore and Deore XT hubs are also 135 mm OLD. If the OP needs a 130 mm OLD hub he will either have to respace those hubs and shorten the axle or use a road hub like 105 or Ultegra.

BTW, is 36H essential or will 32H do? Modern 32H wheels, properly built and tensioned are very durable for everything but full loaded touring with a relatively heavy rider.

As Hillrider correctly clarified, all MTB hubs are going to be 135mm, assuming a quick release hub.

If you want easy service, 36H, and Shimano, you likely won't find anything better suited than these Ultegra hubs: Shimano Pair Road Hubs Ultegra 6800 11Spd - Hubs & Skewers - Ribble Cycles

The price should make you happy, too.

My Masi is a Giramondo (touring bike). Currently,I'm borrowing a 29'r wheel that Giant makes, from my Trek dual sport. The other bike that has had wheel problems.

The 29r dropped in easily but needs shimmed for the disc caliper a smidge. This particular wheel has hole inserts. Which seem to be a thing of the past.

Do I need 36? Well, I weigh 220, and it is a touring bike and, well, roads are crap. I'm erring on the side of toughness here.

Sticking a ruler in the rear of my Trek, I get 135mm.

Is ultegra able to handle loads? They strike me as a lightweight go fast hub vs a load bearing tool.

Why? The mid line Shimano hubs are quite reliable . the 10x1 steel axle can be adapted to change overall width as well, thru a few spacer swaps and the axle itself, Their tandem hubs are 145, same general stuff, more length on the left end..

Now if all you seek is Bragging rights with your buddies, that also like shiny, expensive, Bike parts ... then by all means get out that credit card, and spend liberally..

other countries make hubs to be compatible with Shimano cassettes. US, CH, UK etc.

Shimano Top end (XTR/DA) Now are built around aluminum axles use smaller balls than the rest of the line

Not sure I want an aluminum axle for this app. Definitely not seeking bragging rights, just wantt o know the differences in this line so I don't buy under or over my need. Better engagement might be nice.

Well, they aren't that light and as far as I know, still use steel axles and decent size ball bearings. Now that I know your frame can use a 135mm rear hub, you might as well just get Deore XT hubs (functionally equivalent to Ultegra but designed for MTBs with disc mounts and a 135mm rear).

Engagement? thats the freehub driver function .. what do you find unsatisfactory about the standard driver?

Well, I can't say what the current mfg is of the hub of the wheel in waranty, I assume it's an in house weinmann.

As far as engagement is concerned, if I have to upgrade, why not get smoother operation if I can?

Heck, while you're here, what are the parts that affect engagement?

Thank you guys! Really appreciate the input on this one.

I would have been helpful to know all of this upfront. The fact that the bike is a touring frame and has 135 mm dropouts and disc brakes does make a lot of difference in hub recommendations.

Rear Hubs ? Points of Engagement | RedBike

Getting briefed on engagement.

Going above Deore doesn't add much, if anything durability vise. If durability is the goal, don't look any further. 36 spokes and Deore.

It's hard to beat the mid-priced shimano hubs for reliability and longevity.

I believe the higher end hubs have mostly gone to an oversized alloy axle, and the bearings now have a larger number of smaller balls in them in order to make room (I don't know why they didn't just make the hub body and flanges slightly bigger -- maybe weight). The axle is supposed to be stronger and less prone to bending on impacts. But some posts I've read claim that having more, smaller balls increases rolling resistance slightly and possibly reduces durability under heavy loads. The lower end hubs still have the old, proven, steel threaded axle with 1/4" balls, though even then you will read claims that the lower end hubs have lower quality cups and cones, which might negate any advantage.

So if these hypotheses are true, Shimano gave with one hand (stronger axle) and took with the other (weaker bearings, more drag). I don't know which is more important. Probably a toss-up.

Engaging the freewheel Pawls is what drives you forward ..

there are, for Cops, a silent freewheel driver . so they can sneak up on suspects without the ratchet -pawl making Noise and they escape aprehension by the 'long arm of the law' in a country that locks up more per capita than any other.


Another aspect is field replaceability, In the Busy Summer season, on a Popular touring route,
the time available to do a custom Rim replacement for a passerby is not there, so ..
A machine built wheel from a wholesale distributor will be taken from inventory
by the shop you Limped into.

... and the fancy Hub will be Boxed up and Mailed back to Your House.

Also, due to the oversized axle, these Shimano MTB hubs also require a new/different freehub. This freehub can't be removed with the previously-standard 10 mm hex; a 14 mm hex is required (and hard to find).

My Deore XT FH-T780 rear hub is designed thusly. Besides being delivered with a bad freehub (which was then replaced by seller), my hub has been reliable and smooth for ~1500 miles.

I don't know where the demarcation is between oversize or standard axle size in the current Shimano lineup.

Yes I've heard of a lot of freehub issues with the M770, T780, etc, which is worrying since I just bought a T780 myself for a new wheelbuild. Starting to wonder if I should go more old school myself. I think the T610 has the classic bearing and freehub design, but IIRC the T780 has slightly more symmetrical flange spacing.

This right here kind of negates spending the bucks on a new build vs just buying better wheels. Reminds me of a commercial...

This one will last a lifetime......as long as you don't play with it.:twitchy:

Don't get me wrong here. I understand that if I'm doing downhill on my touring bike I can expect.....to go to the hospital, frankly. And have crushed wheels. But assuming all else is in spec and > I < am doing my level best to not abuse said wheels, if an event arises where I need service on the road, I may still be skunked even though I have common and serviceable parts. That is unless I can manage to have my wheel issues when I need a rest day or two.:p

It's the axle that carries the load. From the standpoint of load carrying, just about any hub will work.


While there's nothing wrong with Shimano hubs of just about any flavor, there's nothing exciting about them either. They are inexpensive but very, very vanilla (i.e. hokum). Frankly, if you are having a wheel built or you are building one yourself, Shimano hubs are so plain, that you should just buy a prebuilt wheel. Building a wheel is expensive and really should only be done to get something that you can't buy off the shelf.

I'm not sure what you find as a problem with the serviceability of King, Phil Wood or White Industries. First, none of them need much in the way of service. I have (many) Phil Wood hubs and a few White Industries hubs. Several of the Phils have over 10,000 miles on them...one set almost 20,000 miles... and have never been serviced nor do they need service. They use a similar bearing to a cartridge bearing bottom bracket with better seals. If the bearings ever fail, you take out the old bearing and replace it. With the Phils, the procedure can be done with a 5mm allen wrench and the bearings are a standard size that you can buy anywhere.

The White hubs aren't as easy but they aren't terribly difficult to replace the bearing either. I would suggest you reconsider boutique hubs. They are worth the extra cost, especially if you are building your own or paying someone to build them.