Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Replace rims or buy new wheels?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Replace rims or buy new wheels?

Old 07-02-16, 07:54 PM
  #1  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Replace rims or buy new wheels?

I have a bike, that is technically cyclocross/gravel (disc brakes) but is being used for exercise, commuting, light touring, centuries, etc, which after only one year has 12 cracks on the rear rim, parallel to the wheel and all drive-side. Another 3 cracks, same places, on front wheel. The rims are 28H Weinmann XC180 (front and back), and needless to say I am not happy with them. I am pretty big (200lbs, sometimes carrying ~40lbs of gear) and more of a grinder than a spinner, out of saddle on many climbs. So I do ride them hard.

My options are, best I can tell, either buying a new set of wheels (presumably with a higher spoke count/better quality rim), or getting new, stronger rims with a similar height profile (18mm), also 28h. I don't want to buy another set of identical weinmann rims (they failed after < 1 year).

After a lot of digging, the closest profile rim I can find has a 19.5mm depth (velocity a23). Is 19.5 versus 18 height going to make a difference when transitioning the hub/spokes to new rim? Should I consider the OC version of a23? Any other (strong) rims with a similar height profile I missed? I like higher pressures/28 width tires, so hoping somethings I can pump up a bit). Or is a new rim likely to bust same exact way and I should get new wheels with 32h (at least for back; performance has some deals on stan's now)? The fact that the front rim also has 3 cracks is making me think this is a rim, and not just weight issue, and stronger rims with 28h would be a cheaper fix (though weight doesn't help, obviously).

EDIT: Also found that Mavic Open Pro may fit well, seems like 18.4mm height.

All help much appreciated

Mike

Last edited by brudus; 07-02-16 at 08:12 PM. Reason: more info
brudus is offline  
Old 07-02-16, 09:55 PM
  #2  
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 10,007

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4370 Post(s)
Liked 3,031 Times in 1,642 Posts
You need more than 28 spokes buddy... New wheels.

Last edited by DiabloScott; 07-02-16 at 11:16 PM.
DiabloScott is offline  
Old 07-02-16, 11:02 PM
  #3  
Nigel
 
nfmisso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,991

Bikes: 1980s and 1990s steel: CyclePro, Nishiki, Schwinn, SR, Trek........

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Hi Mike;

I agree, 32 or even 36 on the back - and something better than Weinmann. I am big fan of Velocity rims, and weigh considerably more than you.
nfmisso is offline  
Old 07-02-16, 11:48 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Tunnelrat81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,407
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I agree with the above advice to get completely different wheels with more spokes. If you are as hard on wheels as you say, and are riding it loaded on mixed terrain, you really should go two steps up to 36h on the rear wheel, 32 on the front. Also, and this is important, the A23 and Open Pro rims are light weight racing rims, not at all intended for loaded riding, even for someone who only weighed 150 lbs, and even with more spokes. I would recommend looking at stronger rims. Ask around about popular touring rims, and then follow that reaearch.

A good friend of mine weighs the same as you, and is about to embark on an extended solo bike tour carrying similar 30-40 lbs.. He chose Mavic A719 rims for the task, 32h/36h. They are a bit wider, have a strong profile, and have double eyelets for strength. This is what I would recommend, as it sounds like your usage and conditions are nearly identical.

In my opinion, wheels should be spec'd to be trouble free in use, and should be the furthest thing from your mind while riding. Spec'ing light weight race rims that weren't designed for such use is starting out on the wrong foot.

Best of luck with whatever you end up deciding.

-Jeremy
Tunnelrat81 is offline  
Old 07-03-16, 02:27 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,688
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1074 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times in 222 Posts
IMO, cracks like that are more due to excessive tension at build than from use alone.
But while I'll gladly try to build light wheels for my "race" bikes, when it comes to my commuter/utility bikes, I'm all for durability.
Had a 32/36 set that lasted more than a decade.
Might consider a 28/32 build, but I'm lighter (loaded) and probably ride kinder roads.
dabac is offline  
Old 07-03-16, 06:24 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,579

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
brudus, I used 28 spoke wheels at your weight without a problem. The big, big difference is that I didn't carry a load that can't unweight when the road deemed it necessary.

You are going to need more spokes, IMHO. I experimented last year with using my distance roadie as a light touring bike. I used a spare set of budget wheels from Velomine (32H CXP22 rims, straight 14 gauge spokes, and Sora hubs. No problems, but I carried my ~20 lb. weight over the front (stronger) wheel. In disclosure, the OEM 28H wheels also were fine.

Once you begin carrying 40 lb. of gear, a 36H rear rim makes the most sense to me. Look at some of the 29r wheel sets.

Brad
bradtx is offline  
Old 07-03-16, 06:49 AM
  #7  
Mechanic/Tourist
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 7,522

Bikes: 2008 Novara Randonee - love it. Previous bikes:Motobecane Mirage, 1972 Moto Grand Jubilee (my fave), Jackson Rake 16, 1983 C'dale ST500.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 486 Post(s)
Liked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Agree with all above. There is almost no benefit and lots of negatives to a 28 spoke wheel for anything that includes off-road or carrying dead weight on the rear.
cny-bikeman is offline  
Old 07-03-16, 08:07 AM
  #8  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you all. New wheels it will be.

Any suggestions for where to start about looking for disc-specific wheels that I can pump to ~90-100PSI for 28c tires and fit an 11 speed cassette? A lot of the 29er rims I've been looking at either don't show a pressure limit, or show lower ones. Way too many options for a relative noob like myself to try to take in...

Thanks
brudus is offline  
Old 07-03-16, 08:46 AM
  #9  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,359 Times in 865 Posts
Why not ask your LBS? they likely can order a wheel set or build you one.

NB: wider the tire the lower the PSI It requires.

manufacturer puts that data on the tire sidewall .
fietsbob is offline  
Old 07-03-16, 08:46 AM
  #10  
Mostly harmless ™
 
Bike Gremlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Novi Sad
Posts: 4,431

Bikes: Heavy, with friction shifters

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1108 Post(s)
Liked 219 Times in 132 Posts
I see no reason for going below 36 spokes.
Bike Gremlin is offline  
Old 07-03-16, 11:02 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 644 Times in 365 Posts
Since you are having durability issues with your current wheel set, why would you be thinking about just replacing just the rim? If you happen have a repeat you are going to feel really stupid.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 07-03-16, 03:04 PM
  #12  
Nigel
 
nfmisso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,991

Bikes: 1980s and 1990s steel: CyclePro, Nishiki, Schwinn, SR, Trek........

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by brudus
Thank you all. New wheels it will be.

Any suggestions for where to start about looking for disc-specific wheels that I can pump to ~90-100PSI for 28c tires and fit an 11 speed cassette? A lot of the 29er rims I've been looking at either don't show a pressure limit, or show lower ones. Way too many options for a relative noob like myself to try to take in...

Thanks
Start thinking about a bigger tire on the rear - which carries about 70% of the weight.

I build my own wheels, my go to rim for singles is the Velocity Dyad, my go to hub is the Wheelmaster Tandem 40H 135mm OLD - a Chinese copy of a Phil Wood - even comes apart just like a PW with only a pair of 5mm hex wrenches, my go to spokes are Wheelsmith DB14. For tandems, Velocity NoBS and Wheelmaster Tandem 48H.

If you are not in a position to build your own, take and look at Peter White.
nfmisso is offline  
Old 07-04-16, 08:25 AM
  #13  
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,450

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6269 Post(s)
Liked 4,296 Times in 2,406 Posts
Originally Posted by nfmisso
Start thinking about a bigger tire on the rear - which carries about 70% of the weight.
Huh? Yes, the rear wheel carries most of the weight but that has little to do with rim strength or with rims cracking. I've cracked rims around the spokes on bikes with 2.1" tires, 35mm tires and 23mm tires.

Rim cracks of the kind that brudus describes can be do to both too little tension and too much tension. Too much tension and the spokes try to pull through. Too little tension and the rim flexes enough to crack. Having 28 spokes would exacerbate the problem in both directions.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!



cyccommute is offline  
Old 07-05-16, 08:59 AM
  #14  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you all for your advice.

Mike
brudus is offline  
Old 07-05-16, 11:02 AM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 644 Times in 365 Posts
You need to cost out the various options too.

Years ago I discovered that, I could buy a pre-built wheel set from various internet suppliers for about the same price as buying the component parts, even at wholesale prices, and building the wheels myself. I'm thinking that, unless you have some special situation, paying somebody else to lace up new rims isn't going to cost out very well.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 07-07-16, 10:28 AM
  #16  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi all --

back for another questions (and thanks for all the help so far). My bike is 11speed with disc breaks. I have had a *very* hard time finding 36h rear hubs that support 11speed road bikes. Outside the expensive (phil wood, white industries, etc), I have found only 3 hubs that (I think) do this: Shimano RS505, Formula CX-(22,32), and Velocity ATB. Velocity seems really heavy at 500g (especially for the price). RS505 is attractive at the price, and 105-level cn't be bad, I guess, but I have found nothing about its specs (weight or any reviews). Formula there is a bit more specs-wise, but no reviews and I can't find them for sale anywhere...

Any suggestions on how to choose between them? There are a few more options if I go down to 32h, but based on what everyone is saying I may really want 36 in the back? Is that true even if I go with a stronger rim?

Thanks!

Mike
brudus is offline  
Old 07-07-16, 11:04 AM
  #17  
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 10,007

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4370 Post(s)
Liked 3,031 Times in 1,642 Posts
Get the Shimano 36° hub and, build a bomb-proof wheel.

I've never seen Formula hubs for sale either - they mostly deal with manufacturers and packagers I think; they come on a lot of new bikes. You could probably find a whole wheel built with one if you looked around,

You could probably be OK with a 32° wheel but you don't need to compromise.
DiabloScott is offline  
Old 07-09-16, 01:41 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,660
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Liked 171 Times in 138 Posts
36 double butted spokes on a good rim. Handspun Pavement Series 6 Rear 700c XT DT TK540 36h
davidad is offline  
Old 07-09-16, 04:56 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
Tunnelrat81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,407
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by davidad
36 double butted spokes on a good rim. Handspun Pavement Series 6 Rear 700c XT DT TK540 36h
I don't see 11spd in that description.

-Jeremy
Tunnelrat81 is offline  
Old 07-10-16, 03:21 AM
  #20  
afraid of whales
 
Mr IGH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 4,306
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
32 spoke wheels will be fine, choose a strong tubeless ready rim such as a SunRingle Helix 27 and straight gauge 2.0mm spokes and you'll have a mountain bike set of wheels on your bike.

Don't fall for the double butt spoke myth, straight gauge spokes build a stronger wheel. 36 spoke wheels then use DB spokes, LOL.

Last edited by Mr IGH; 07-10-16 at 03:24 AM.
Mr IGH is offline  
Old 07-10-16, 03:41 PM
  #21  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sunny Tampa, Florida
Posts: 1,543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked 49 Times in 41 Posts
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
You need to cost out the various options too.

Years ago I discovered that, I could buy a pre-built wheel set from various internet suppliers for about the same price as buying the component parts, even at wholesale prices, and building the wheels myself. I'm thinking that, unless you have some special situation, paying somebody else to lace up new rims isn't going to cost out very well.
I'll agree that pre-built wheels are the least expensive way to get a wheel assembled. My experience has been that they almost always need some additional work to avoid needing to be retrued after each of the first few rides. The factory wheels from the big names are usually good to go. But, many of the assembled wheels are way below needed tension and haven't been prestressed at all.

Check 'em when you get them. It's still a good deal, less than parts cost and no lacing required.
Ronsonic is offline  
Old 07-10-16, 03:49 PM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 5,773
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 454 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 87 Posts
11 speed and 36 are a combo that is not really sold anymore, as the market doesn't demand it. There are a few options, Hope, White Industries, and that's about it (there maybe one or two more, but not Shimano).
jimc101 is offline  
Old 07-12-16, 05:50 AM
  #23  
afraid of whales
 
Mr IGH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 4,306
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
36 hole is becoming orphaned. Most newer tubeless ready rims stop at 32 hole, it's very rare to find 36 hole MTB rims.
Mr IGH is offline  
Old 07-12-16, 06:56 AM
  #24  
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,450

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6269 Post(s)
Liked 4,296 Times in 2,406 Posts
Originally Posted by Mr IGH
Don't fall for the double butt spoke myth, straight gauge spokes build a stronger wheel. 36 spoke wheels then use DB spokes, LOL.
Straight gauge spokes don't make for a stronger wheel. The only place I can find data on spoke breakage...Pillar Spokes...has conveniently measured the breaking strength of all it's spokes and displayed them in easy to read graphs. A straight gauge 2.0 mm spoke breaks at about 270 kgf. A 2.0/1.8/2.0mm spoke breaks at about 290 kgf load. A 2.2/1.8/2.0 spoke breaks at about 320 kgf and a 2.3/1.8/2.0 spoke breaks at about 420 kgf of load.

Clearly, a simple double butt increase strength while adding more material at the head significantly increases breaking strength.

And why spend the money, time and effort to build a wheel that you can purchase? The only reason to build wheels is to build something that no one makes or no one else has.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!




Last edited by cyccommute; 07-12-16 at 07:37 AM.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 07-12-16, 10:10 AM
  #25  
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 10,007

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4370 Post(s)
Liked 3,031 Times in 1,642 Posts
Originally Posted by jimc101
11 speed and 36 are a combo that is not really sold anymore, as the market doesn't demand it. There are a few options, Hope, White Industries, and that's about it (there maybe one or two more, but not Shimano).
OP listed in his first message a 36° 11v disc brake hub from Shimano that only costs $30.

Those would make for a fine custom wheelset.
DiabloScott is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
3speed
Touring
87
12-09-17 03:28 PM
dkyser
Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg)
22
04-19-14 09:23 PM
jeepwrng
General Cycling Discussion
13
02-16-12 10:05 AM
faint599
Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg)
11
12-11-10 09:21 AM
wearyourtruth
Touring
29
07-17-10 06:12 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.