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new tiagra brake can't reach 700c wheel rim on 1985 700c peugeot

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new tiagra brake can't reach 700c wheel rim on 1985 700c peugeot

Old 07-13-16, 06:44 PM
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new tiagra brake can't reach 700c wheel rim on 1985 700c peugeot

I have a nice 1985 Peugeot 12 speed 700c road bike with all original components in great condition which I am trying to ruin by stripping it down and installing a new tiagra full groupset with new shimano wheels as well. The front brake seems to be fine.The original bike is 700c. The new wheel is of course also 700c, and the new dual pivot rear brake mostly clamps down on the tire and doesn't reach far enough to hit the rim. Yes, the pads are all the way down.

My question is, WHY?! Why doesn't it line up? Aren't the specs for 700c brake clearance the same now as they were then?

I am well aware of the issues with converting 27" frames to 700c wheels and the need for long reach brakes but I did not expect the same sort of problem with a 700c frame and 700c wheels and 700c brakes, even if the bike is older.

The original weinmann brakes have more reach, but I don't want to pair them with the new super slr brake levers. I know there are long reach dual pivot brakes available, but I really wanted everything on this bike to match. I don't think third party brakes like tektro are technically compatible with the cable pull on the new levers, but it seems like most people don't have a problem pairing them.
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Old 07-13-16, 06:46 PM
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Another fun part of this build is the friggin fork tube is a tiny bit smaller than 1" so I have to machine down the shaft of the quill adapter I'm using. I didn't pick the best frame to modify with modern components.
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Old 07-13-16, 06:54 PM
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Brakes come in different reaches. Shimano standard road brakes are short reach 39-49mm between the bolt hole and the pads. Sounds like you need either some medium or long reach brakes depending on how much lower the pads need to go.

Shimano does make some non-tiered but Shimano branded mid reach brakes, I think 47-57mm reach that are common equipment on endurance road bikes. Some people just sand down quill stems, wrap some wet/dry sandpaper for metal around it and go at it. Quill stems are not really a precision fit.

Last edited by 2lo8; 07-13-16 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 07-13-16, 07:13 PM
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If you have to sand down a quill stem to fit, I am wondering if your bike isn't a bit older than you think it is. In any case, what was considered to be a regular reach brake back then would be a long reach brake now. My 1973 Raleigh Professional had ample room for wider tires than we normally use now with clearance for mudguards on top of that. Have you checked the bottom bracket threading yet?
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Old 07-13-16, 07:28 PM
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Maybe these offset pad holders will help ?

BDop OFFSET HOLDERS

NEW AICAN Aluminum C Brake Shoes for Shimano/Sram Black 1 Pair-in Bicycle Brake from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

You will also need to buy new brakes pad as the Tiagra pads are a 1 solid piece design and non transferable to the holders above.

Last edited by trailflow1; 07-13-16 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 07-13-16, 07:31 PM
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I do not know about the brake, but the quill stem problem I can tell you that the fork steer I.D. is french sized 22.0 mm and your adapter is 22.2mm (normal). I would recommend reaming out the fork to be normal, so any stem will fit. Secondly, If you do not have access to a reamer, File the stem instead of sanding it, it will go much faster.
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Old 07-13-16, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
Have you checked the bottom bracket threading yet?
happily it is standard english 68mm, not french.
I had my doubts for a while tho, as the fixed cup was absolutely stuck for a while, but I kept trying to turn it to the right and I got it eventually.

The frame still has the tiny piece of paper with the model # taped to the chainstays, it's an 85 for sure. All the parts match the specs in the 85 catalog as well.
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Old 07-13-16, 07:42 PM
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aljcphil made a good point. If it's that new and BSA, I'd double check the head tube for any sort of obstruction or build up before modifying the stem.
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Old 07-13-16, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian25 View Post
I do not know about the brake, but the quill stem problem I can tell you that the fork steer I.D. is french sized 22.0 mm and your adapter is 22.2mm (normal). I would recommend reaming out the fork to be normal, so any stem will fit. Secondly, If you do not have access to a reamer, File the stem instead of sanding it, it will go much faster.
yup, it's 22mm. I read about french bikes on Sheldon's site somewhere, and this seems to be the only anachronistic element that remained on Peugeots in '85.
The fork tube seems very thin to me, actually. I haven't dealt with many french bikes, mostly japanese and english (raleighs) and I don't recall ever seeing such a thin fork tube. So I'm gonna just grind down the $13 quill stem adapter and go from there.
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Old 07-13-16, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 2lo8 View Post
aljcphil made a good point. If it's that new and BSA, I'd double check the head tube for any sort of obstruction or build up before modifying the stem.
hmm well the original quill, which is very nice, fits fine, and I'd like to keep it that way.

I did clean out the old grease pretty well. I think the .2mm of metal on the cheapo adapter will have to go. I have no reservations about modifying it, as I would rather leave the bike intact and be able to put the original quill back in someday if desired.
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Old 07-13-16, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by trailflow1 View Post
Maybe these offset pad holders will help ?

BDop OFFSET HOLDERS

NEW AICAN Aluminum C Brake Shoes for Shimano/Sram Black 1 Pair-in Bicycle Brake from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

You will also need to buy new brakes pad as the Tiagra pads are a 1 solid piece design and non transferable to the holders above.
yes, I was looking for stuff like this. I knew they existed but I couldn't find the right search terms. Thank you!
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Old 07-13-16, 07:49 PM
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What we now call "long reach" brakes (47 to 57 mm typically) were quite common in the '80's. I had an '83 Trek 400 and an '85 Bridgestone 400 and they both used "long reach" brake calipers.
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Old 07-13-16, 09:21 PM
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The modern Shimano long reach brakes are great. FdJ even uses them on their Lapierre bikes for the cobbled classic races so they can run bigger tires than fit under the standard dura ace brakes. (The pulsium frame allows for both mountings!)
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Old 07-13-16, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
What we now call "long reach" brakes (47 to 57 mm typically) were quite common in the '80's. I had an '83 Trek 400 and an '85 Bridgestone 400 and they both used "long reach" brake calipers.
So from a little research on Velobase these short reach and long reach brakes co-existed for a long time. I suppose the super sporty bikes used the short brakes and normal consumer bikes used standard reach (now long) brakes.


None of the older brakes I have are long reach.
105 BR-1050 39-49mm 1985-1988
exage sport BR-A450 39-49 (SLR) 1988
600 tri color BR-6400 49 max (SLR) 1988-90

velobase indicates there are long reach 57mm versions of all of these models, so I guess that would take care of the non-super sporty bikes and older bikes.
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Old 07-13-16, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by pacificaslim View Post
The modern Shimano long reach brakes are great. FdJ even uses them on their Lapierre bikes for the cobbled classic races so they can run bigger tires than fit under the standard dura ace brakes. (The pulsium frame allows for both mountings!)
Yeah it's gonna have to be these or tektros, these are probably the only choices that are remotely affordable
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Old 07-13-16, 10:57 PM
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Shimano R650, or R450 have 57 mm reach (or drop). vs 49 mm of "standard" Tiagra brakes.
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Old 07-14-16, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by dinobyte View Post
Yeah it's gonna have to be these or tektros, these are probably the only choices that are remotely affordable
Miche Performance is another option, even less expensive than Tektros, but you may need to order them through a UK website.

The problem you may run into is that the new Tiagra levers pull more cable than any of the long reach brakes expect which translates to slightly degraded performance. I had a set of the Miches installed on one of my bikes with 4600-series Tiagra levers and thought they were kind of meh. Then I swapped my levers over to Campagnolo Athena, which is closer to old Shimano (Super SLR) cable pull, and suddenly the Miche brakes were working extremely well.

Even so, as long as you get some good brake pads any of the long reach brakes will work well enough.
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Old 07-14-16, 05:47 AM
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30+ years ago, nearly all road bikes (save those specifically made for racing) had clearance for fenders, and required a longer reach caliper than is common today.
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Old 07-14-16, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by dinobyte View Post
So from a little research on Velobase these short reach and long reach brakes co-existed for a long time. I suppose the super sporty bikes used the short brakes and normal consumer bikes used standard reach (now long) brakes.
Sure, not all bikes from that time period used long reach brakes. A friend had an '87 or '88 Trek 560 and it use short reach calipers. However, long reach calipers were common then and it seems that's what the OP needs.
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Old 07-14-16, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by trailflow1 View Post
Maybe these offset pad holders will help ?

BDop OFFSET HOLDERS

NEW AICAN Aluminum C Brake Shoes for Shimano/Sram Black 1 Pair-in Bicycle Brake from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

You will also need to buy new brakes pad as the Tiagra pads are a 1 solid piece design and non transferable to the holders above.
Seems to me an extender like that would change the mechanical advantage of the calipers and require a harder pull on the brake lever compared to calipers that are designed from the start for a longer reach.
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Old 07-14-16, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Sure, not all bikes from that time period used long reach brakes. A friend had an '87 or '88 Trek 560 and it use short reach calipers. However, long reach calipers were common then and it seems that's what the OP needs.
I would suggest that "classic" road bikes are those from before maybe 1982-ish. Those that had friction shifters and external brake cables. A 1987-88 Trek is an older "modern" bike, and would not have had fender clearance unless it was a touring frame.
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Old 07-14-16, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
Miche Performance is another option, even less expensive than Tektros, but you may need to order them through a UK website.
I have a set of Miche Performance brakes on my '86 Trek. They're actually rebranded Tektros -- If you look closely, you can find a Tektro model number stamped into the arms. (R315 maybe, if I remember correctly.)

A set of Miche Performance brakes (front and rear) is about $25 from Ribble:
Miche Performance Brakeset - Rim Brakes - Ribble Cycles

Originally Posted by AlexCyclistRoch View Post
A 1987-88 Trek is an older "modern" bike, and would not have had fender clearance unless it was a touring frame.
I don't know if it's quite so black-and-white. That '86 Trek I mentioned above, a 300 Elance, isn't a touring bike and it has room for fenders. There was definitely a trend toward tighter clearances in the '80s, but there might have still been a few road bikes with fender clearance in '87 or so, especially at the lower end of companies' product lines.

The above-mentioned '87 or '88 Trek 560, though? Being a racing bike, yeah, you're right. It probably wouldn't have had much clearance at all.

Last edited by SkyDog75; 07-14-16 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 07-14-16, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
Shimano R650, or R450 have 57 mm reach (or drop). vs 49 mm of "standard" Tiagra brakes.
Super SLR compatible too!
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Old 07-14-16, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
Super SLR compatible too!
But only "dotted line" compatible with "New Super SLR" (4600/4700/5700/6700) or "SLR-EV" (5800/6800).
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Old 07-14-16, 02:17 PM
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It has worked fine for me. Very good brakes. With 5700 levers.
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