Constant Broken Spokes
 

I've got an old Gary Fisher Marlin mountain bike. Lately, the spokes have been breaking. Sometimes it's one or two, and other times it's as many as four on the same tire.

I would have the spokes break on the front tire, so I would take the bike in for repair. Presumably, the service tech would not only fix the broken spokes but also check the ones on the back tire. A couple of weeks or so later, the spokes on the back tire would break. I take in for repair and all is good for a month or so, until some more spokes on the front tire break. The service tech has mentioned that it's a known issue for the black coated spokes to break, and I just happen to have black coated spokes.

What I don't understand though is that from the time I bought the bike several years ago until now, I have never had a spoke break. I don't know if this makes a difference, but when I lived in NY, I kept the bike inside. When I moved to FL, I kept the bike outside on a porch. Now that I am frequently riding, the spokes are breaking. I finally decided to replace the front wheel and I guess I will have to do the same for the back wheel.

What's the deal with the spokes breaking? Any factual information regarding black coated spokes being prone to snapping or breaking?

Low spoke tension can cause breakage, because it allows the spokes to flex and fatigue.

Depending on how much they charge to replace spokes it might be more cost effective to have the LBS rebuild the wheel or replace it.

That's what I did a few months ago. A single spoke broke at the hub on the sprocket side and the single wall Alex rim seemed unusually warped -- and I had to ride it 5 miles home in that condition, although I rode very carefully. Most shops in my area would charge $20 for a spoke repair, although it would have cost about the same to replace one or a few in a single session. But I figured the spokes would keep popping and nickel and dime me until it wasn't cost effective. After chatting with the manager I decided to have them order and install a new double wall rim wheel with heavier gauge spokes. Nothing fancy, just a decent Weinmann rim. No regrets. Probably last the rest of this bike's normal life.

Mountain Biking is not a situation where wheels are treated with Kindness .

Buying a New wheel is actually pretty Normal.

Bikes don't service themselves, Ignore at your Own risk.

Re: tech and the black spokes, he's lying or just making stuff up.

Alternative take: he's damaging your spokes every time you go in there. Find a new mech.

Once you break spokes a few times on the same wheel, it's a safe bet it is going to keep happening. Something happened to cause lots of spokes to fatigue on the wheel, and you can't undo that. Best bet is to get a new wheel at this point.

I had never heard anything about black coated spokes being more prone to breaking than other spokes. After seeing the response here, it sounds like there isn't much to that story.

The spokes are snapping in the middle. With the broken spokes, I've been able to ride to the bike shop and get it fixed, even though the wheel is off balance.

Today's break happened on the rear wheel and caused it to lock up. It also conveniently happened when I was several miles from home.

Should have just replaced both wheels at the same time. I've probably been to the bike store at least four times to fix the same issue.

You need to do your due diligence to prevent being lied to by LBS techs. I recently went with these Strong | Sapim because the only place I've ever had a spoke break was in the hook end.They are "strong"-get it? But I re laced the wheel myself. But of course YMMV. Good luck!

P.S. Your spokes are breaking cuz their shot! Maybe the wheels to I couldn't say. When I here "These are the only spokes we use here cuz there good enough" (and I've heard that twice this year) from a LBS I cross them off my list

In a round-about way, the technician may be speaking truth. If the spokes are painted, galvanized steel, they will be prone to corrosion, and breaking at those points--which often results in a spoke breaking in the middle/somewhere unexpected (ie, not the elbow). More expensive black spokes are stainless, phosphate/paint coated. That said, stainless spokes will still rust, but it takes time/salt exposure for the chromium to be 'used up'.

Without seeing the spokes, I am not qualified to give you an actual answer, but I'd place my money on corrosion. Spokes don't break in the middle from flexing, they break at the elbow. I see this all the time on coastal bikes that wind up underwater/live outside.

*edit*

If you have any reason to doubt the structural integrity of your remaining spokes, put on a pair of work gloves, and squeeze parallel spokes, hard. under normal circumstances, no damage will be done, but with wheels as I mentioned above, I have broken spokes just by squeezing.

I've seen old wheels that just begin breaking spokes like that. Engineers will tell you that spokes don't fatigue. That's because they are engineers and believe their own numbers. I'm a technician - spokes eventually get old and tired and all need to be replaced.

I replace or completely rebuild a wheel when it gets like that.

Your wheels have had it. You need to replace or rebuild the wheels with new spokes

The trick to a bicycle wheel isn't to eliminate wobble from the rim, it's to have all of the spokes as evenly tensioned as possible. My guess is that your's aren't, and the fiddling your bike mechanic has done has imbalanced them more.

I'm thinking that your most economical choice at this point is to buy a whole new wheel set. You could have your current hubs rebuilt but, with your history of broken spokes, your rims probably have a terminal warp. New rims, all new spokes and the labor to relace your wheels will exceed the cost of an equivalent quality wheel set.

Oh - and that story about black spokes being significantly more prone to breakage is baloney!

Just buy new rims. If the spokes are breaking in the middle the rims are toast..

Just to eliminate a possibility based on the vintage of your bike.

If you have stainless steel spokes (identifiable by a shiny slightly yellowish appearance, and low magnetic attraction) check for small black inclusions (dots, streaks or veins) on the surface. If you see any grab that spoke and a neighbor and squeeze hard to flex the spokes. If it snaps, my theory is confirmed --- your spokes have cancer, or more specifically chloride corrosion. There is no cure for this, and it's terminal, the inclusions are incipient fracture points rendering the steel there about as strong and brittle than spaghetti in the box.

The ONLY option is to replace all the spokes, or buy/build new wheels.

IIRC, there was a bad batch of spokes around 7-8?? years ago that caused problems for MANY wheels.
How old is the bike?

When a wheel is built, spokes need to be laced right, then tensioned, wheel trued, then spokes need to be stress relieved, then, after a few rides, check for any loosening, or wheel coming out of true. When that is all done well, all the spokes take wheel loads equally and it's all fine.

From time to time, check for loose spokes. If some come loose, tighten them again, true the wheel and ride on.


However, here's what I believe was the scenario with your wheels:

If loose spokes are not checked, the adjacent (or opposite side, whichever) spokes will take more load, getting fatigued. Once a most fatigued spoke brakes, it can be changed, but it wasn't the only spoke that took extra tension, some other spokes are near their breaking point as well. If more than one spoke were loose, not tight enough, than probably most spokes on the wheel have come near their breaking point.

So when you change a broken spoke on wheel that went through that scenario, it is only a matter of time before another spoke breaks. It will go on and on until you replace most of the spokes - one by one. In addition to that, the new spokes, once another spoke breaks, also take more load and it is arguable how well the load distribution can be done with the combination of new and worn spokes.

Long story short: the best option (IMO and experience) is to re-lace the whole wheel with new spokes. If rim and/or hub are not in the best condition, change them as well. Wheel well built with decent quality rim, hub and spokes can last for decades - just check the spoke tension from time to time.

Is it possible to tell if the new or old spokes are breaking? It might just be that the new spokes aren't as good as the originals, so they break. Or, on the other hand, the new spokes are stronger and the fatigued older ones will continue to break....

It's hard to say when we don't know which are breaking. I'm leaning towards the new spokes failing.

This. The range of tension is quite wide and within that range it doesn't make difference to the strenght of the wheel or chance of spoke breaking, but the difference in tension between spokes should be really small. Also it should be a snug fit into the hub.

Additional spokes broke, this time on the back wheel. The spokes caused the back wheel to lock up.

I've now replaced both wheels. Hopefully this will hold up.

Given your history there is one more thing that I would recommend. Find a local wheel builder who owns and uses a tensiometer. Have him/her check all of the spoke tensions on both wheels. And, yes, it's possible for wheels to be perfectly true and yet have spoke tensions that vary all over the board.

Best of luck w the new wheels

Again, Keep up on maintenance of the new wheels, don't let the spoke tensions get loose .

Ignore that at your Peril :innocent:

Why are the rims shot? :foo:

No, the mechanic wasn't speaking truth in any way whatsoever. He was speaking what comes out of the north end of a south bound bull:rolleyes:

As long as you are comparing similar materials, painted or coated spokes aren't more prone to corrosion than nonpainted spokes. If you are comparing two different materials, all bets are off.

Engineers won't tell you that spokes don't fatigue. People who misinterpret what engineers write might tell you that an engineer won't. Jobst Brandt talks about spoke fatigue in a number of places like here and he discusses it quite extensively in his book. For a properly built wheel, the spokes should outlast several rims which he has also stated but the problem is that it's often difficult to find a rim of a different brand with the same ERD so spokes get replaced prematurely if the wheel is rebuilt.

The Strongs aren't a bad choice although a triple butted spoke with a 1.8mm middle section offers some advantages over the Strong's 2.0mm middle. Wheel Fanatyk has a really good article on using the heavier headed spoke that you find in the Strong, Wheelsmith DH13, Pillar TB2018 spokes or DT Alpine III. I've been using them since 1999 and find that my wheels are much more durable.

I've used both the Pillar and DT Alpine III and had very good luck with both. The Pillars are available from BDop Cycling for about $0.80 each and are available in any length you want. They ship very quickly too.

The DT Alpines III tend to be much more expensive...usually around $1.50 to $2 per spoke. I recently found, however, that they are available from Rose Bikes for the impossibly ridiculous price of $0.50 each. That's cheaper than even a straight gauge stainless steel spoke. Wh

I had a spoke problem about 5 years ago on my tour bike and I had the wheels re spoked and solved the problem. I had access to a testing machine thru work and pull tested new and old spokes and found some differences and started a thread.

http://www.bikeforums.net/touring/75...oke-spoke.html

Rather than retype my story you can read that link. Sorry about the photos there the hosting site went out and left me with a lot of dead links.