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Rim with 1-2mm vertical wobble.. fixable?

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Rim with 1-2mm vertical wobble.. fixable?

Old 05-16-05, 10:35 AM
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Rim with 1-2mm vertical wobble.. fixable?

I just wanted to get some opinions from the people here on this, as i've gotten conflicting reports from a few LBSes.

My rear wheel (XT rear hub, DT Revolution spokes, alloy nipples, Mavic SUP 217 rim) has a vertical wobble. On a certain point, the rim bobs 'up' maybe 1.5mm. I took it to one LBS, which was pretty ghetto (ie. they only stocked cheap BMX bikes and sub $400 hybrids etc). Anyway, the guy there tinkered with it for maybe 20 minutes until he told me that some of the spoke nipples were stuck, and he'd have to replace some spokes, but he didn't have any of the right type (they only had straight guage generics). But he evidently thought the wheel was fixable.

So i took it to a better shop that my friend recommended. They didn't look at it for more than 0.5 seconds before the guy said 'vertical wobble, you need a new wheel'. I was pretty surprised, so he was like 'don't believe me huh? Hey joe, this wheel needs to be rebuilt with a new rim right?' The mechanic looks up, grunts, nods, and goes back to whatever he was doing.

Anyway, i stop by one more bike shop. This one has a lot of high end stuff but their 'repair' corner is pretty minimal. Just one stand and a few tools. I ask the guy there, he looks at the wheel for a couple seconds and says 'we can fix that.. it just needs to be trued'. I say 'but it has a vertical wobble.. isn't that bad?' and he looks at me totally blank. 'It just needs to be trued' he repeats.


Soo... any suggestions from experienced wheelbuilders? Is a vertical wobble a terminal illness for a rim? Was the second shop playing me for a fool?

Thanks,

robin
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Old 05-16-05, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by robo
IThey didn't look at it for more than 0.5 seconds before the guy said 'vertical wobble, you need a new wheel'.
I ain't an experienced wheel builder, and I obviously can't see the wheel, but on the surface, that sounds UNBELIEEEEEEVABLE!!

I would say a 1mm to 1.5mm flat-spot or bump is NOTHING for even a beginner wheel builder!
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Old 05-16-05, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by robo
Soo... any suggestions from experienced wheelbuilders? Is a vertical wobble a terminal illness for a rim? Was the second shop playing me for a fool?
Unbelievable! This is obviously fixable. I would not be surprised if a brand new rim is out of vertical true by 1 or 2 mm. The vertical wobble can be fixed very easily by tightening the spokes under the high spot.

(BTW, check that the bump isn't due to the tire: sometimes a tire isn't all the way seated, and so there appears to be an out of true rim but it's really just the bead of the tire.)
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Old 05-16-05, 11:19 AM
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Thanks. Looks like i'll be trying to get the rim trued, rather than replaced. Phew! Glad i asked. I was ready to shell out the $90 the 2nd shop wanted to rebuild the wheel (with a cheap rim and straight gauge spokes no less)
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Old 05-16-05, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by robo
Thanks. Looks like i'll be trying to get the rim trued, rather than replaced. Phew! Glad i asked. I was ready to shell out the $90 the 2nd shop wanted to rebuild the wheel (with a cheap rim and straight gauge spokes no less)
Sounds like they're trying to gouge you, you can get a pretty good COMPLETE wheel for that price from Performance (I got a complete set of Mavic 618 rims + XT hubs for $130 from them, for example). Furthermore, even if they replaced the rim, it is normally fine to keep the existing spokes unless they're old and have been breaking frequently.

Basic wheel truing is straightforward, though rather time consuming until you've had some practice. You could buy a $5 spoke wrench and fix this yourself in maybe 1 hour, even if you've never done it before.
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Old 05-17-05, 09:53 AM
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1 - 2mm is nothing. As long as your spokes and nipples are in good shape, it's a breeze.

PS - It's rare for me to see a well-used MTB wheel that isn't out of round by 1mm after a tough day- and those guys don't throw their wheels away after every ride!!!
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Old 05-17-05, 10:23 AM
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Brand new rims can have 1-2 mm wobbles in them. Don't go to that shop anymore. BTW, Are you sure you have DT Revolution spokes on your rear wheel? They are ok on the non-drive side, but I don't recommend them on the drive side of the wheel.
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Old 05-17-05, 10:49 AM
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Yeah, i had the wheel built by Supergo a few years back, and specified the parts. I didn't know about not using thin spokes on the drive side.. i just wanted the lightest stuff (heh... i was 16 at the time)..

Incidentally, i just called another shop, Toga Bikes on the west side which is apparently a major shop, and over the phone the guy said that with a 1-2mm vertical 'hop' (as they called it), they might or might not be able to fix it, and i'd have to bring it in...
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Old 05-17-05, 11:19 AM
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hop is easy to fix. any novice wheel builder should be able to fix this in 10 minutes at a dollar a minute.
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Old 05-17-05, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by robo
Yeah, i had the wheel built by Supergo a few years back, and specified the parts. I didn't know about not using thin spokes on the drive side.. i just wanted the lightest stuff (heh... i was 16 at the time)..

Incidentally, i just called another shop, Toga Bikes on the west side which is apparently a major shop, and over the phone the guy said that with a 1-2mm vertical 'hop' (as they called it), they might or might not be able to fix it, and i'd have to bring it in...
I'm thinking they may be hesitant to say "Yes we can repair it" because if it's actually DENTED then the hop may not be repairable. However if it's just out of true due to spoke tension, then it's a pretty trivial repair, as everyone here seems to agree
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Old 05-17-05, 03:00 PM
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If the spokes are evenly tensioned i'd be tempted just to leave it, but then I'm a bum.
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Old 05-17-05, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dooley
If the spokes are evenly tensioned i'd be tempted just to leave it, but then I'm a bum.
Ideally, the spokes should be evenly tensioned for a new perfectly true rim. But once it's been knocked around a bit, the rim may get slightly distorted, and spoke tension will not be even. This is not a problem, it's just something that needs adjustment.
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Old 05-17-05, 08:39 PM
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Without seeing the wheel I would guess that the rim needs to be "adjusted" with 2 blocks of wood and a rubber mallet, then trued radially and laterally. If the rim has a flat spot it will need to be rounded out before truing, otherwise truing will result in uneven tension and future problems. Check for cracks in the rim around the spoke holes before spending any money on the wheel. If you don't have any cracks it is probably worth repairing.

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Old 05-17-05, 09:23 PM
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Thanks. I'm going to try out Toga bikes tomorrow morning, since i have a free day. If they give me any crap, i'm going to say 'But the guys at bikeforums.net said...'
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Old 05-18-05, 01:57 PM
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Heh. this is starting to get funny. Toga Bikes said that the wheel is unfixable, not because of the hop, but because one of the alloy spoke nipples is seized to the steel grommet in the rim.

every shop gives a different reason... i think i'm just going to give up and buy a new wheel online!
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Old 05-18-05, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by robo
Heh. this is starting to get funny. Toga Bikes said that the wheel is unfixable, not because of the hop, but because one of the alloy spoke nipples is seized to the steel grommet in the rim.

every shop gives a different reason... i think i'm just going to give up and buy a new wheel online!
No way dude, that's ridiculous. Have they ever heard of trying Liquid Wrench before pronouncing these things? Freeing seized parts is annoying but not impossible.

You must have some seriously incompetent shops. Besides, I don't think a 1-2 mm hop is a enough to warrant throwing out a wheel... but if you do, do you have any plans for that XT hub?
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Old 05-18-05, 02:11 PM
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Too bad you aren't near me, I'd fix it in about 10 seconds... when I rebuilt the wheel on my freeride bike after the crappy factory build went out on the first ride, I was getting probably 3-4mm hops out of the wheel, and its been perfect since. If a nipple is seized, soak it in penetrating oil/chain lube, whatever and then gently apply pressure to the spoke wrench (preferably using one with a 4 sided head to avoid rounding) until it snaps free. They are probably afraid of ripping out the eyelet, but I don't think I have ever had that happen.
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Old 05-18-05, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by robo
Heh. this is starting to get funny. Toga Bikes said that the wheel is unfixable, not because of the hop, but because one of the alloy spoke nipples is seized to the steel grommet in the rim.

every shop gives a different reason... i think i'm just going to give up and buy a new wheel online!
If you dont trust them, dont go there. If you trust them, then say "fix it, I take full responsibility" and hope they dont rip the rim to pieces when they extract the nipple.

Or do it yourself as people suggests
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Old 05-18-05, 03:19 PM
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I'm going to try one more bike shop then... I've heard some good things about Treads in Inwood in another thread..

It's weird though. Most shops charge $20 to true a wheel. Maybe they just don't think it's worth the work for the $20 if it needs more than a few twists of a spoke wrench?
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Old 05-18-05, 03:54 PM
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Could be, but a 2mm hop should only be a few twists. Its not something that would require tensioning the whole wheel or something like that.
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Old 05-18-05, 04:01 PM
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^^ Right, but as soon as they come across a stuck nipple or something, maybe they're just like 'Not worth it, we can just sell this sucker a new wheel'?
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Old 05-18-05, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by robo
I'm going to try one more bike shop then... I've heard some good things about Treads in Inwood in another thread..

It's weird though. Most shops charge $20 to true a wheel. Maybe they just don't think it's worth the work for the $20 if it needs more than a few twists of a spoke wrench?
Seriously, buy a $5 spoke wrench and do it yourself. It is not that hard (this sounds like a rather simple case) and there are plenty of good guides to the procedure on the internet. It'll probably save you time compared to dealing with all these (apparently incompetent) shops.
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