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Anyone want to assist/guide me building a new rear wheel?

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Anyone want to assist/guide me building a new rear wheel?

Old 02-23-17, 08:38 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
If memory serves, OP is not exactly a featherweight, so a 7-speed-on-130mm or 8/9/10-speed-on-135mm hub with the extra spacer on the NDS would be a really good idea.

Is this correct?

Wouldn't an 8-speed cassette be wider than 7 speed? Maybe?

But if the hub is 135mm, wider than 130mm, why would I need a spacer?

Even if 8 vs. 7 is exactly the same size, if the hub is wider at 135mm, why would I need a spacer in the 135mm/8speed set up? Wouldn't I also need one for the 130mm/7 speed set up? Or is a 7 speed cassette an extra 5+mm wide?


Wondering about spacers too, where to get them, what they are exact (specialty "spacer" or just any kind of washer that takes up space. It might be good to have some if it means slightly nudging over the cassette to make with existing gear/shifter settings, ie put a spacer in maybe instead of adjusting the shifting. I was thinking of putting a space on the NDS side there.

But if I put a spacer on the drive size (space, washer, whatever... enough to nudge it over a mm or two), then my gear shifting might fall into the smallest cog that it doesn't seem to reach any more. (I'm switching the wheel out sometime in the near future though, so it might not matter.)


Point being I wouldn't mind having some spacers to experiment with.
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Old 02-23-17, 10:15 AM
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So I’ve got five hubs

1 -- XT-T780 $66
2 -- T610 $33
3 -- Shimano XT-M770 $55
4 -- T670 Deore LX $40
5 – Maybe Alivio-T4000 $28

Leaning toward XT ones if that’s better.





shimano 36h 135mm quick release 8 speed hub


1 hub possible here
This might match..
https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-XT-T7...+hub+36h+135mm
Shimano XT T780 Rear Hub - 8/10-Speed, 36H, QR, Black
$66.91
black
Shimano XT T780
- What's the width?
- And what is Shimano "Deore?" I see a deore cassette too.
https://cycle.shimano-eu.com/media/te...9830758219.pdf
- Says it's "Deore XT Freehub (8/9/10 speed)
- Lists black and silver
- *** Lists over lock nut dimension 135mm
- nice diagram of how it all fits together
- this one might work. get 1 black, 1 silver. ~$120


2 hub possible here
https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-T610-...+hub+36h+135mm
Shimano T610 Hub Rr Shi Fh-t610 Deore 36 8-10scas Sl Bulk
not much info though
$33 price fell from $44 the other day
- Deore again
- silver
https://www.bike24.com/p297969.html
- lists FH-T610 rear hub as 135mm
- has black there
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=62825
- 135mm
- only black here; would be nice to get one silver, one black same hub.
- lists 32 vs 36 hole, no change in 135mm width
$29 here
... So the Shimano FH-T610 rear hub could work too.

Odd... Amazon's info must be off.
- black here
- what's a freehub dustcap?
- Yep, info is a little misleading "9/10-SPEED OLD:135MM, AXLE:146MM QR:168MM"
--- so it's 135mm, same as I found before.
This Deore one is too wide for 36h... 168mm
Shimano Deore Rear Bicycle Freehub - FH-T610
https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Deore...hub&th=1&psc=1
Ditto...
https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Deore...6h+8+speed+hub
$31.45 & FREE Shipping


But what's the difference between these hubs?

Here is a spacer, but it looks like this goes with the cassette.
https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Alloy...bicycle+spacer
Sunlite Alloy Cassette Spacer, 8 speed to 7 speed, 4.0mm
$5
- and it looks like it goes between the cassette and hub.
- I wonder if some washers would work as spacers between the outer side of the cassette/skewer and bike frame, to push the cassette slightly... left? No, that won't matter. I'd need to remove width from the ND side of the wheel, or add, to move where the cassette sits in relation to the shifting. A 135mm, extra 5mm, might have some effect. And this might have zero effect on getting to the smallest cog still anyway. I can investigate it later.






https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-XT-M7...+hub+36h+135mm
Shimano XT-M770 rear Q/R hub, 135mm x 36h - sil
but they say Shimano 9/10/SRAMF/R so I'm thinking it's wrong since I want an 8 speed cassette.
Otherwise, this one doesn't look bad. It's $55.
- silver
- only 1 listed here.

Might not be the same but found a Shimano FH-M770 here...
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-FH-M770-2699A.pdf
- 135mm

older notes on 770

This one looks very interesting.
https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-XT-M7...mano+36h+135mm
Shimano XT-M770 rear Q/R hub, 135mm x 36h - sil
$54.61





Shimano tech docs here?
Manuals & Tech doc

Ah, this must be the deore answer...
Deore is a groupset.
Our guide to Shimano mountain bike groupsets from Deore to XTR - Chain Reaction Cycles
- *** explains differences betewen Shimano groupsets here?
Shimano Deore groupset
Shimano SLX groupset
Shimano Deore XT groupset
Shimano Zee groupset
Shimano Saint groupset
Shimano XT Di2 groupset
Shimano XTR groupset
Shimano XTR Di2 groupset

- Don't see Claris, but I'm guessing that's bottom-of-the-line from the price.
- List looks generally in order or least to best.
- All mountain biking I think. The only reason I'm sticking with a 135mm hub is because that's what came with the bike, that's what someone mentioned on here (130mm was 5mm too narrow), and it does look like the actual forks will easily fit the 135mm/130mm means squishing the forks together a little more with the skewer nuts.

Searched for Shimano groupsets in general, found the road list I think.
https://www.evanscycles.com/coffeest...heir-hierarchy
Claris (catalogue number 2400)
- So Claris is the road bike model line...
Sora (3000)
- I think that's what I got for the crankset stuff before.
Tiagra (4700)
105 (5800)
Ultegra (6800)
Ultegra Di2 (6870)
Dura-Ace (9100)
Dura-Ace Di2 (9150)

Is 130 vs. 135mm road or mountain bike? It probably doesn't matter for the rear hub. I imagine a mountain bike rear hub might be built to take a little more abuse too.





3 -- another possibility here
https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-T670-...ywords=FH-T670
Shimano T670 Hub Rr Shi Fh-t670 Dlx 36 8-10scas Sl Bulk
$40
Deore LX line... probably 135mm then.
https://www.rosebikes.com/article/sh...hub/aid:719994
- says 135mm
- black here
Shimano LX Hubs Hub Reviews - Mtbr.com
- someone says XT is better than LX.
... Check again, but probably ok, probably 135mm

older 670 notes

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-T670-...mano+36h+135mm
Shimano T670 Hub Rr Shi Fh-t670 Dlx 36 8-10scas Sl Bulk
$39.86
- width unknown and other T610 was 168mm
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hubs-cas...-hole/?geoc=US
- commenter says t670 is only available in 135mm




https://bike.shimano.com/content/sac...fh-2400-s.html
Claris Rear Freehub (8/9-speed)
Can't quite tell from the specs...
PRODUCT SPECS
Model Number FH-2400
Series Claris
Axle Type QR
Over Locknut 130mm
Axle Length 141mm
Spoke Holes 32/36H
Contact Sealing Yes
2/23/2017 -- Ah, interesting. So if Claris is the road bike line, then road bikes are 130mm? Mountain are 135mm? I thought it was the other way around. Probably not though. So Claris is out then.
- That makes the decision easy for the cheaper Claris hubs. They're out.





-----------

This is out I'm pretty sure.
Shimano Rear FH-2200 8/9 Speed Hub - 36H Black
Shimano Rear Fh-2200 8/9-Speed Hub - 36H, Black
$24.23
- not on amazon... probably not available.
- still out of stock. FH-2200 is close to the Claris FH-2400, so this is probably a Claris 130mm road hub.




4 This will probably work, double check specs for 135mm for sure. And what's the Alivio line?
https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Alivi...6h+8+speed+hub
Shimano Alivio T4000 36h Rear Hub, Black
$27.83
Cassette Body Type: Shimano/SRAM 8, 9, 10 Speed
- what's the width? 135mm?
https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/col...rear-hub-black
- says 135mm here







general list of shimano rear hubs
Rear hubs


might be another model here.
Shimano Deore M525 135mm Rear hub dimensions | Freespoke | Freespoke
shimano Deore M525
135mm
this one is disc though.
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Old 02-23-17, 11:48 AM
  #53  
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You're getting into the realm of asking for stuff you should be paying someone for. You really expect people to pore over these details and come up with a recommendation that you're not likely to take? For free? Do you think that's our idea of fun?
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Old 02-23-17, 12:24 PM
  #54  
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Overthinking

1) Buy any 36 hole hub that's compatible with your drivetrain (8, 9, 10...whatever)
2) Buy a sturdy 36 hole rim.
3) Buy spokes (Use a spoke calculator to determine spoke length)
4) Build wheel
5) Install tires & cassette
6) Ride

Should be done in a week from when you order the parts, to riding it.
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Old 02-23-17, 02:00 PM
  #55  
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Hub hunting notes.

Looks like it's the Shimano Deore XT FH-T780 so far.



Ranked for quality from what I find so far...
XT-T780 - should be available in black and silver
XT-M770 - only silver on Amazon, but only one item there too.

T670 Deore LX
T610 Deore

Alivio-T4000

What's the difference?
Which one is better? Better being stronger, will last longer, won't be the next part that breaks.
What's this Alivio?
- Must be an older model line/groupset. Or not necessarily older... It's a mountainbike groupset. Why isn't it on the other list? Newer? Just not on the Chainreaction list for some reason.
https://www.evanscycles.com/coffeest...heir-hierarchy
Acera (catalogue number M390)
Alivio (M430)
"On entry-level mountain bikes you’ll often find Alivio components mixed"
" Less weight and a few more refinements"
Deore (M610)
SLX (M700)
Deore XT (M8000) <-- So Deore and Deore XT are better than Alivio?
Deore XT Di2 (M8050)
Deore XTR (M9000)
Deore XTR Di2 (M9050)
Zee and Saint

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=62825
- T610 is just a Deore from this pic.

T for trek, M for Mountain bike in these model names?
770 vs 780 too? Maybe the year?



XT-T780 - should be available in black and silver

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-XT-T7...+hub+36h+135mm
Shimano XT T780 Rear Hub - 8/10-Speed, 36H, QR, Black
$66.91
- vendor listed as Shimano, ships from Japan? Nope... "Ships from and sold by FlyMotorSports."
https://www.amazon.com/sp?_encoding=...b=&vasStoreID=
- Can't tell where FlyMotorSports is located, but probably domestic enough to ship from Amazon, ie within the US, no issues waiting for international shipping.
- evancycles set list from 2013? Says XT line is from last year. Posts on Amazon are from 2012.

Should be able to find a silver and a black version.
https://cycle.shimano-eu.com/media/te...9830758219.pdf

?what is a bicycle hub dust cap?
These apparently.
Campagnolo 740 NR SR rear hub dust caps x 2 NOS | eBay
https://www.amazon.com/HUB-AXLE-SET-.../dp/B0012ZOTQ8
rear hub dust cap - BikeRadar Forum

I guess my crankset was Acera.
Shimano Acera M361 Square Crankset > Components > Drivetrain > Cranksets | Jenson USA
SHIMANO ACERA M361 SQUARE CRANKSET
- I was curious if it was a deore one that might match the hub, not that that really matters.

Shimano Deore XT FM-T780-S and FM-T780-B (-s silver, -b black I would assume)
36h 135mm

Not very well liked here.
Shimano XT Rear Hub T780 | Chain Reaction Cycles
Shimano XT Rear Hub T780
$43.49
3/5 stars
"the freewheel is very fragile. "

Shimano XT T780 Rear Hub - 8/10-Speed, 36H, QR, Black
Shimano Xt T780 Rear Hub - 8/10-Speed, 36H, Quick Release, Black
$63.04
- no reviews
- black

Shimano XT FH-T780 Rear Hub - 8/10-Speed, 36H, QR, Silver
Shimano Xt Fh-T780 Rear Hub - 8/10-Speed, 36H, Quick Release, Silver
$59.95
- silver (black paint's more expensive then silver)
- reviews

So I should be able to buy a silver and a black Shimano XT FH-T780 for around $66 each, x2 = $120 for hubs.
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Old 02-23-17, 03:06 PM
  #56  
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Old 02-23-17, 04:11 PM
  #57  
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Slimming the purchase list down.

People's comments (excluding negative ones) have been helpful. I investigated the 48 spoke idea. It just didn't pan out, but I will probably end up getting one silver and one black hub because of it, a subtle but obvious way to tell two otherwise identical wheels apart without having to mark them.







To purchase:

spacers?
- Maybe something at some point or washers on the right to keep the frame farther from the smallest cog.

rim tape x2 -- still unknown
- Mavic site said a special 'UST' tape only I think.
https://www.mavic.com/sites/default/...rim_tape_0.pdf
What is UST rim tape?
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/To-The...ires-2013.html
Universal Standard Tubeless
- I'll have inner tubes, so this doesn't matter, I think.
- Still need some kind of rim tape I think.
??? Guessing $10~15

rims -- Mavic A719 x2
https://shop.mavic.com/en-us/a-719-j24400.html
- *** I wouldn't mind seeing what the rims look like all around, esp what double eyelets look like.
$85 from Mavic x2 = $170

hub -- x2; probably one black, one silver

Shimano XT T780 Rear Hub - 8/10-Speed, 36H, QR, Black
Shimano Xt T780 Rear Hub - 8/10-Speed, 36H, Quick Release, Black
$63.04

Shimano XT FH-T780 Rear Hub - 8/10-Speed, 36H, QR, Silver
Shimano Xt Fh-T780 Rear Hub - 8/10-Speed, 36H, Quick Release, Silver
$59.95
= $122.99 from Niagra

I would have had to buy at least one hub to replace my current 32h hub for sure. This is probably a better hub than what was originally on the bike, Shimano RM-30 which isn't available now, and it's new/both are the same age this way.


Spokes -- Check from model on websites, wait and double check when actually in hand
- if 36 spoke that's 18x18 per wheel. Spares are good, so 25+25 x2 = 50+50 spokes
- double butted
Guestimating, say $1/spoke = $100 for spokes.
Description: DT Competition Spokes - 2.0 x ??? mm (Silver) DS
Description: DT Competition Spokes - 2.0 x ??? mm (Silver) NDS

Although... 18+18=36 spokes actually needed. How many spares do I actually need? That was 7+7 x2 wheels... 14+14=28 spare spokes...
36+36=72 spokes needed minimum. 45+45=90 would give me 9 extra spokes of each kind, 18 spares.
= $90 instead of $100 for 90 spokes
- Although if the wheels last over ten years, and it should be stronger/better built... I shouldn't have to buy spokes again.


Cassette -- 2nd of what I've got now. My current cassette has about six months of wear, but that will even out with the two wheels eventually.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=12017
Shimano CS-HG50 Sora 8 Speed Cassette
Item #: 12017-181727
11-32t (11-13-15-18-21-24-28-32)
$18

X Tires
X Inner tubes

Total is about $416. $208/wheel, sort of... ~$200 for one wheel, $218 for the other wheel.


Plus a nipple wrench.
https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-373...+nipple+driver
Park Tool Nipple Driver
$19.76

Plus the slotted screwdriver set I found before.





What rim tape does this require?
https://shop.mavic.com/en-us/a-719-j24400.html
"Recommended rim tape 29": 622 x 20 x 0.6"
- What do the numbers mean exactly...

Interesting.
Making sure that a bicycle tire will fit the rim
Rim measuring
"Making Sure that the Tire Fits the Rim"

Wheelbuilding
"Rim tape is not added until the wheel truing is complete."
- Good to know. Although that makes sense. Rim tape always got in the way for repalcing spokes.

How does rim tape work to attach to the rim? It's either a complete hoop or I see tape with a hole in the end, maybe for attaching to the valve stem, although that seems dangerous.

Hm.
29" = 736.6mm 622mm = 24.4" about 24.5"
- Except the tape might stretch, so that could be the 622 number.
20 is probably 20mm, width
.6mm for thickness. I wonder if there's "too thick" for rim tape. It just protects the spoke poke throughs I think. And that's probably spoke with a nipple on it, having to loosely go through two rims. It might but probably won't poke through the inner tube. Thickness of rim tape on the other side is only going to be in contact with the inner tube and maybe the very edge of the tire. I doubt "too think" would have much effect there.

bicycle rim tape 29" 20mm gives better results.

Here's one, but not in stock.
https://www.amazon.com/Ritchey-Snap-Bicycle-Rim-Tape/dp/B00A8OOXJW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487885966&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=bicycle%2Brim%2Btape%2B29"%2B20mm&th=1
Ritchey Snap-On Bicycle Rim Tape


Oops... That would have been nice, esp. I built the whole wheel. I would caught it while building though, but had to wait for a stupid piece of plastic to arrive. ...which is possible since my current wheel is still working. It's not dire.
Spoke Protectors | Spoke Protector | Bicycle Parts - Niagara Cycle
I need spoke protectors too.
x2

example one. I wonder how difficult it is, what the process is, for matching these.
EVO 6-1/2" 36H 3-Prong Protector, 30-36T , 6-1/2", Clear
EVO 6-1/2" 36H 3-Prong Protector, 30-36T , 6-1/2", Clear
$3.99
out of stock though



Rim tape/rim strips here
Rim Tape | Rim Strips | Bicycle Rim Tape - Niagara Cycle
$500 rim strip..... Phew...

Is there a different type of rim tape for double wall rims? I remember something about that from searching before when I replaced spokes. I thought I might have to replace or reseal rim tape.
- It was something about cloth I think... It had to be cloth for double walled rims....

This appears correct.
EVO 29" x 20mm Rim Strip, Dual Ply PVC for Double Wall
EVO 29" x 20mm Rim Strip, Dual Ply PVC for Double Wall
$4.23
Says it's for double walled rims.
Must be a hoop/lopp?
Must have a hole for the valve stem already? Or there must be a way to create one without splitting the tape?

Appears correct.
Ritchey Snap On 29" X 20Mm Blue Snap-On Rim Bands, 29"X20Mm, Blue
Ritchey Snap On 29" X 20Mm Blue Snap-On Rim Bands, 29"X20Mm, Blue
$4.95
This page mentions Richey rim tape, says it's fabric.
https://www.amazon.com/Ritchey-Snap-Bicycle-Rim-Tape/dp/B00A8OOXJW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487885966&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=bicycle%2Brim%2Btape%2B29"%2B20mm&th=1

Here's another I think.
https://www.amazon.com/Ritchey-Rim-S...0mm&th=1&psc=1
Ritchey Snap-On Bicycle Rim Tape
- blue has 29" 20mm
4.5/5 stars, but it's Amazon. 171 reviews though. Skewed to 5 stars with 80%
- Apparently sold in pairs. Nice. Just what I was looking for for numbers then.
"It fits tightly in the rim. It does not stick, but stays nicely in place"
"There was no sticky side to it. But it was more like a rubber band and had to be stretched to put on rim and once installed properly, you should not have any fear of it moving. "
-- Sounds like it's like putting on tires. Kill the fingres and squeeze it into place.
"you first think they're never going to fit."
Yes... "Just make sure you line up the tube stem hole,"
Interesting...
"better than a screw driver, cut the threads off an old 14 g stainless spoke, slide it under the rim strip, perpendicular to the rim, then slide the spoke, with the rim strip over it around, until it centers the strip, and has the hole aligned, each rotation around the wheel moves the strip a about three millimeters the direction of travel, Velocio"

Tired of searching for rim tape for today.
I need to decide on rim tape for sure.
And I need to investigate plastic wheel/spoke covers.
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Old 02-23-17, 04:20 PM
  #58  
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Jesus, just buy a wheel already.
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Old 02-24-17, 04:51 PM
  #59  
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Possible spoke guard. Still looking.





Shimano CP-FH51 Spoke Guard For 36H, Freehub Clear
Shimano CP-FH51 Spoke Guard For 36H, Freehub Clear
$4
but out of stock
36h

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-CP-FH...no+spoke+guard
Shimano CP-FH53 Spoke Guard For 36H, Freehub Clear
$5+$5 shipping, ouch
"how do u measure the size of a chain guard
Answer: You need to know the number of spokes on your wheel in order for the lugs on the guard to match up correctly. "
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Old 02-24-17, 06:33 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by AlexCyclistRoch View Post
Not with this poster; look at his previous posts. I fully expect this to become at least a 40 post debacle, with no meaningful results.

YOU can make a wheel in a few hours, and I can, and probably MOST posters here, but I doubt he can pull it off in less than 6 months.
Originally Posted by bikerbobbbb View Post
Probably add another 1-2 weeks onto my estimate.


Looks like it's coming down to the wire.
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Old 02-25-17, 09:41 AM
  #61  
AlexCyclistRoch
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Originally Posted by bikerbobbbb View Post
Possible spoke guard. Still looking.
....commonly known as a "dork disc".

Seriously, it is......
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Old 02-25-17, 11:42 AM
  #62  
bikerbobbbb
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Ordered -- Rims, hubs, rim tape, spoke guard, nipple driver, extra spanner screwdriver in case that's useful.

Next steps...
Check spoke length from model.
Check spoke length when rim and hubs are actually in.
Order spokes (90 I think) and cassette (1). (90 spokes is... 36+36 for two wheels, plus 9+9 for spares.)
- Double check nipple length, compare to what I've got.

Are the rims schrader or presta? Might need a new inner tube, adapter, etc.




Then assembly, but that's adding in lacing.
Then truing like I've done before.

Prep one wheel and make sure the gears/shifting still line up.


I should have a week before that comes in. I can check spoke lengths based off model now. I can check nipple length, do a quick search to see if the rim is shrader or presta for sure....
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Old 02-27-17, 08:52 AM
  #63  
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Potentially... Sweet.
Spoke Calculator for bicycle wheels | Prowheelbuilder.com
Rear
MAVIC
A719
Shimano hub
XT M770 <-- Site doesn't have XT T780
36
3 cross
Gives me...
290.8 NDS
289.4 DS

---------------
Previous spokes...
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...0&category=197
DT Competition Spokes - Silver
1 Review
2.0-1.8-2.0 stainless steel butted spokes
185g/32 spokes
x20, 292 mm
x20, 290 mm

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...9&category=197
DT Swiss Brass Nipples
DT Swiss Brass Nipples - 2.0 x 12mm Silver Brass
12mm
---------------

I was thinking I could reuse one side's set. Now I'm wondering if I could reuse both... If these numbers are accurate with the different model hub.

If I need NDS spokes that are 291mm but they sell them in even numbers, is 1mm too short or too long better?
-- Too long, it sticks through the rim more. No problem. But I'd use up the thread faster. Unless they can put extra thread on it...
-- Too short? And I run out of spoke but would still be on the thread. I'd still have enough thread.

I wonder if it matters for mixing spokes I bought last fall with some new ones vs. getting all new now so potentially it's all from the same batch when manufacturered.

There's the spoke threading tool, but that's +$100.

Potentially that could give me enough spokes for one wheel, 18+18. Since I already have these, I could try them out first and see if they fit. With dish though, I'd be lacing the whole thing up and then testing. I should be to know hypothetically which way to go...


https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...th-spokes.html

Last edited by bikerbobbbb; 02-27-17 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 02-27-17, 09:10 AM
  #64  
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https://shop.mavic.com/en-us/a-719-j24400.html
Mavic A719 specs
Recommended nipple length: 12 mm

https://cycle.shimano-eu.com/media/te...9830758219.pdf
Shimano XT T780 specs
** Does list interchangeability with FH-M770-S (L) and FH-M785
... So the spoke calculator might be exactly correct.
- I'm not seeing anything better on the prowheelbuilding.com calculator site for matching than the M770.


Adjusted plan -- Try to build with the 290 and 292 (1mm too long) spokes I've already got. If that works, order more. If that doesn't work, order all 290mm's.
-- I still need the cassette sooner, or it would be nice.... Although it's not too difficult to remove the cassette off my current wheel.


That also means I've got the spokes and the cassette (in use) on hand right now, so there might be nothing to wait for when everything arrives.
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Old 02-27-17, 10:22 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Jesus, just buy a wheel already.
Ha ha ha, gold.
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Old 02-27-17, 03:48 PM
  #66  
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For me measuring the actual parts when they come in...


ERD looks straightforward enough.
https://leonard.io/edd/howtomeasure
-- Diameter, measure up to the inner nipple, then measure the height of the nipple x2 (which I already know the nipples I'll use are 12mm).

I was thinking I might manually do the calculations, but it looks like I can just plug numbers in here.
Spoke Calculator for bicycle wheels | Prowheelbuilder.com



Hub looks straightforward. Only trick is being precise enough I think.
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Old 03-09-17, 09:11 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by bikerbobbbb View Post
For me measuring the actual parts when they come in...


ERD looks straightforward enough.
https://leonard.io/edd/howtomeasure
-- Diameter, measure up to the inner nipple, then measure the height of the nipple x2 (which I already know the nipples I'll use are 12mm).

I was thinking I might manually do the calculations, but it looks like I can just plug numbers in here.
Spoke Calculator for bicycle wheels | Prowheelbuilder.com



Hub looks straightforward. Only trick is being precise enough I think.
How is the wheel building coming along?
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Old 03-13-17, 02:19 PM
  #68  
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Life intervened....

Parts are in. Got the wheel and hubs measured today. Confirms everything which is fine.

Hub matched exactly. I was wondering if there was a trick or add-on piece for the caliper measurer. It's got the points on it to be very precise but those aren't long enough when it's on a hub. I can eyeball it, that it matches my numbers from a similar hub, but it's not the same as having it touching. The calipers need longer finger/pointers somehow.

I measured both hubs just in case... No issues.

ERD on the rim was slightly different. I got 577 or 581mm depending on how I measured. I double checked the longer tape vs. a shorter stick. They both matched when I lined up rulers. One is a tailor's flexible rollup tape, so I thought it might be streteched out. It wasn't. The other was the Park spoke ruler. I had two nipples in opposite holes, used old spokes, had them pulled as tight as i could with tape.

Nipples are 12mm, so 24mm added on gives me... 605 or 603mm.

The pro wheel builder spoke length calculator for this model rim is 601mm ERD though. I'm thinking that's probably more accurate or it's close enough.


Original calc, with site's ERD for my exact rim.
Left spoke length: 290.8
Right spoke length: 289.4

My longest ERD measurement of 605mm.
Left spoke length: 292.8
Right spoke length: 291.4

And I've already got spokes that are 290 and 292mm. Dang.. I was going to measure those today too to see if they're a little long or short. Easy enough to check later...

So...
The site's calc meant I would use spokes that were slightly longer (slightly being .6 and 1.2mm extra).
My longest calc is means my 292/290 spokes are .8 and 1.4mm too short.

I tend to trust the site/manufacturer more than my own measurements I guess. I was getting a 3mm difference when I measured. And add fatigue -- I measured ERD after checking the hubs.



I debating on whether to lace up the wheel "dry" with no spoke prep, so I can focus on lacing it up without worrying about the prep drying up on me. That was a thought, but I think it also means I'll have to undo 36 nipples to apply spoke prep. That still gives me time with lacing though, which is the unknown part.

After that I'll see how the 290 and 292mm spokes work for sure.

When I put the 36 spoke, 135mm hub, on the bike, I'm thinking the derailleur won't quite line up but I can mess with that later. The current/old/32 spoke rim is shot, so these replacements are the future. As long as I can pedal with some gears, that would let me keep riding it.

Once I've got one wheel done or as done as I can make it, I can order more spokes and the second cassette and prep up the second wheel, adjusting anything I learn from the first one.


For the Mavic rims being "black" they have a giant shiny, silver brake strip around the outside. They don't look as black as I was expecting, which is fine. I would have gotten silver if I could find it. But the black is so slight I don't think I'll notice it much at all. The black vs. silver hubs, even less so. That's how I'll distinguish the wheels though -- black vs. silver hub.


I've hit some bumps, normal enough ones, and noticed my wheel brushing the brake or something. The wheel continues to die. But I figured if I needed to, I bet I could prep a wheel over a weekend.
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Old 03-13-17, 03:04 PM
  #69  
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Interesting. I wonder where that site got their info.


https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...-a719-erd.html
"According to my notes the ERD is 603."
"According to the Mavic website the ERD is 600mm."
??? I don't see ERD on there....
https://shop.mavic.com/en-us/a-719-j24400.html
"I used Damon Rinard's spokecalc spreadsheet number of 600.5 mm and double-checked it myself."
"I measured out 602 to 605 around both rims so I think I will use the 603 ERD number for calculations. "

Duh on me.... If the wheel isn't perfectly round, ERD will be different in different parts the wheel, right? Or they "should be" perfectly round... They were shipped in a box. They wouldn't have been bent except for moving inside the box during shipping.

"I use 600 (as per Mavic's website) and this spoke calculator:
Spoke Length Calculator "

Interesting...
"I have found Mavic's published data to be quite reliable as long as you fator in that the number they publish is something they call "Spoke Support Diameter." Add 3mm to this number and you will have ERD. Hey, they're French, they just have to do it different, but they are usually consistent."




Another spoke length calculator:
https://leonard.io/edd/
(Says 600.5 for ERD on Mavic A 719.)
https://leonard.io/edd/ using shimano T780 hub and mavic a 719, 36h, 3x, gives me...
Spoke length left 290.5 mm
Spoke length right 289 mm
And I've got 292 and 290mm, so I'm a little long. I've got the spokes, so I want to use them though. It's $40 saved there.

Mavic A719 ERD: is it really 599?- Mtbr.com
"That said, DT Swiss spokecalc says it's 603mm. A difference of 4mm is substantial."
""don't use the DT Swiss spokecalc". He says the spoke length is always too long. "
"I created some calibrated rods and using Mussons technique I ended up with an ERD of 603/602."
"I built a set recently and measured 603mm."
"I've got one in the shop that I measure at 602."
" I'll check again tonight and likely use 602. Using 603 nets a 1mm longer non drive side spoke."



Mavic A719 700c, 29er rim dimensions | Freespoke
"ERD 602 mm"


Interesting rant on racing wheels and rider weight...
Custom Wheel Building


I guess I'll measure again.... Tape measure maybe, pulled as tight as I can get it. I didn't trust the very end though, so I also tried measuring from the 2cm mark so it was the same on each side. And I'll try measuring more than one set of holes.
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Old 03-13-17, 03:08 PM
  #70  
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Also interesting...
Spoke Calculator for bicycle wheels | Prowheelbuilder.com
If I use 603mm for ERD I get...
Left spoke length: 291.8 <-- My 292mm spokes are .2mm longer.
Right spoke length: 290.4 <-- My 290mm spokes are .4mm shorter.
(And then it depends how longer my spokes actually are.)

But if 603mm is the correct ERD, I'm spot on for the spokes I've already got.


I'll just try them and see. Measuring ERD again on different hole sets is ok. Measuring the actual spokes is ok. I won't be surprised if the spokes I've got are a match though.
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Old 03-13-17, 03:15 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by bikerbobbbb View Post
........

tl;dr
..........

Duh on me.... If the wheel isn't perfectly round, ERD will be different in different parts the wheel, right? Or they "should be" perfectly round... They were shipped in a box. They wouldn't have been bent except for moving inside the box during shipping.

......

tl;dr
If the wheel isn't perfectly round, it's not going to ride worth a d@mn. Take it apart and start over.
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Old 03-13-17, 05:24 PM
  #72  
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Will you guys please stop responding to him? He is oblivious to both information and sarcasm.
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Old 03-13-17, 05:46 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Will you guys please stop responding to him? He is oblivious to both information and sarcasm.
Oh, you are being mean to a newbie.....gotta report you!
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Old 03-13-17, 05:52 PM
  #74  
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if youre only gonna do it once, just pay for it, i can do a wheel while watching tv, but it took me a few years of doing so
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Old 03-13-17, 06:54 PM
  #75  
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Lets get those wheels built. We need some photos.
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