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1" headset swap problem

Old 12-28-16, 08:09 PM
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1" headset swap problem

I am trying to replace the worn, pitted headset on my wife's Softride hybrid.

I removed the old one and swapped on what I think/thought was a standard 1" threaded Tange Levin headset. Everything seemed to be going well BUT on the new install I do not seem to have enough thread for the brake cable guide that these cantilever brakes require. It's a Zoom and I think it is supposed to go between the upper cup and the lock nut. But there's not enough thread for the lock nut to grab.

am I missing something here?
1. might I be using the wrong ball bearings and loosing height there?
2. was there / is there a special headset for bikes with cantilever brakes that sits lower on the headtube and so allows the brake cable guide ring?

and why would this cable guide sit between the cup and nut? it seems it would make it difficult to impossible to access the cup faces to adjust or tighten the headset.

(and of course in whacking off the old cups I managed to fire the lower one across the basement and in the dark I can't find it and so I cannot even show you the complete old headset.)

thanks
Peter
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Old 12-28-16, 08:15 PM
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You can use a crown mounted hanger in lieu of the headset mounted one. Tektro makes one that is reasonably priced.
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Old 12-28-16, 08:19 PM
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Brilliant.
Over and out.
thanks
Peter
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Old 12-28-16, 08:24 PM
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Not all headsets have the same height. It's possible the new headset has a taller stack height, which would need more steerer tube. If this is the case, you don't have to scrap the headset if you've got enough steerer tube to mount everything except the cable hanger. Just use a fork-mounted cable hanger instead.

Here are some fork-mounted hangers:
https://www.modernbike.com/industry/1/product-14717
https://www.excelcycle.com/products/...nti-fork-mount

...but another possibility is that something's not assembled correctly. Looking at that top pic, something doesn't look right about the bottom half of that headset. Is that the crown race visible beneath the lower cup? If so, that doesn't seem right.
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Old 12-28-16, 09:08 PM
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I've also seen photos of people drilling out their handlebar stem to accept a cable stop. It seemed like an elegant solution.
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Old 12-28-16, 10:00 PM
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I've got a MTB stem with built-in cable stop in the parts bin. It was stock on a '91 Cannondale SM400. (Why didn't I think of that?)
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Old 12-28-16, 10:36 PM
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pstock, Did you use the new crown race provided with the head set?

Brad
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Old 12-28-16, 11:14 PM
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V-Brakes? <running... ducking...>
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Old 12-29-16, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SkyDog75
I've got a MTB stem with built-in cable stop in the parts bin. It was stock on a '91 Cannondale SM400. (Why didn't I think of that?)
Years ago I bought a Specialized-branded MTB quill stem that had a factory drilled stepped hole through the stem to act as a cable guide/housing stop. The problem was that every time you readjusted the stem height you had to readjust the brakes.
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Old 12-30-16, 12:06 PM
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Looks like the crown race is installed upside down, but would need better pictures of the area to tell for sure.

-j
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Old 12-30-16, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
Years ago I bought a Specialized-branded MTB quill stem that had a factory drilled stepped hole through the stem to act as a cable guide/housing stop. The problem was that every time you readjusted the stem height you had to readjust the brakes.
How often do you adjust your stem height?
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Old 12-30-16, 12:42 PM
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Headsets R Us.

Originally Posted by bradtx
pstock, Did you use the new crown race provided with the head set?

Brad
Not a new-new one (as in brand new) but the original that was installed with the HS when I uninstalled it.
after parting out about.... 40 completes, I have quite a collection of headsets. (see attached) This Tange Levin one was (I think) the cheapest, simplest I had.

baring the possibility that I installed the crown race upside down (I don't think so, but I'll check. I've done stupider things) I think I've got things sorted. Bought a $4 fork mount cable hanger this morning.
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Old 12-30-16, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Greenfieldja
Looks like the crown race is installed upside down, but would need better pictures of the area to tell for sure.

-j
I think I've got it right. Flat side down, curved side up.

though I have always been slightly baffled by the correct orientation (if there is one) of the bearings in cages.

and I think in this case I might have them both backwards.

should the cage side be towards the cup and the bearing faces towards the races?
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Old 12-30-16, 01:38 PM
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Lower bearing retainer is correct. upper one is upside down. Andy
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Old 12-30-16, 01:42 PM
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The bearings are on correctly, as pictured. The upper headset assembly has the race attached to the headset 'cup'. This was/is a common arrangement with 1" headsets.
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Old 12-30-16, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wschruba
The bearings are on correctly, as pictured. The upper headset assembly has the race attached to the headset 'cup'. This was/is a common arrangement with 1" headsets.

What are you calling the "race" the cone is in the headtube and the retainer's sheet steel body is against the cone. the threaded part is a cup, the cup is where the retainer sheet body needs to be located. Andy
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Old 12-30-16, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
What are you calling the "race" the cone is in the headtube and the retainer's sheet steel body is against the cone. the threaded part is a cup, the cup is where the retainer sheet body needs to be located. Andy
In an effort to be clearer, and describe the pressed fittings as they are more commonly known, it appears I was less than successful.

At any rate, it appears that the open back of the bearing retainer is facing the cone, as it should be.

The last Levin headset I installed looked identical to the posted pictures.
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Old 12-30-16, 07:38 PM
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On third look I stand corrected. wschruba you are right. Andy
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Old 12-30-16, 08:38 PM
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Sounds like OP is going with a Crown mounted hanger

but I'll offer an additional suggestion:
a threadless headset cable hanger, can be clamped onto your stem *above* the headset locknut
-shims may be needed depending,
as threadless cable hangers typically come with an inside diameter of 1" or 1.1/8"
while a stem is going to have an outside diameter of either 1", or 7/8"(or close)
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Old 12-31-16, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
On third look I stand corrected. wschruba you are right. Andy
LAST CALL! Going, Going...... I'm going with open face of the balls pointing up in both cases.
though in the new year I am going to look at my various headsets and learn how the different bits have.... different faces.
and of course, loose balls would make this much simpler in a way.

thank you all. I am locked and loaded on this. Happy New Year.
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