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Different Brake Types Front and Back
Hello,
I am currently upgrading an early 90s touring bike and I was wondering if there are any risks to having different types of brakes on the front and the rear. Specifically, the bike came with cantilever brakes, but I am going to change the fork to go from threaded to threadless. A new fork might not have cantilever brakes necessarily. If for instance I put rim brakes in the front and cantis in the back, will the braking feel/performance/safety be affected by that difference? My gut feeling says no since the pads will be generally the same and brake feel can be modulated to equalize them across the bike, but maybe you guys have past experience with this? |
Originally Posted by SelloCiompi
(Post 19303321)
Hello,
I am currently upgrading an early 90s touring bike and I was wondering if there are any risks to having different types of brakes on the front and the rear. Specifically, the bike came with cantilever brakes, but I am going to change the fork to go from threaded to threadless. A new fork might not have cantilever brakes necessarily. If for instance I put rim brakes in the front and cantis in the back, will the braking feel/performance/safety be affected by that difference? My gut feeling says no since the pads will be generally the same and brake feel can be modulated to equalize them across the bike, but maybe you guys have past experience with this? |
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
(Post 19303326)
The bolded stands out to me... rim brakes... canti's are rim brakes. Most every kind of brake you can think of is a rim brake except for disc brakes. So, what exactly are you wanting to do? Second thing... I don't know, but I wouldn't think it will be the easiest thing to put a threadless fork in your 90's frame. The headtube diameters may not be compatible with the bearing races used for the threadless systems. But I don't know. Why do you want to do this? "A new fork might not have cantilever brakes necessarily" why do you say that? A new fork can have braze on bosses to which you can attach V-brakes (my recommendation) or canti's. The only other likely option would be disc brake mounts. A disc front and canti or v-brake rear is possible.
I've seen cheap forks which have pivot mounts, but have threadless, larger stems than what I have now. Really the question is more about whether different brake systems provide different feel or, since as you pointed out it's all a rim brake anyway, it doesn't make a huge difference? |
Originally Posted by SelloCiompi
(Post 19303328)
.. will putting pivot brakes on a pivot enabled fork... if there are still cantis in the back?
What are pivot brakes? Caliper brakes are available as single- or double/dual pivot brakes. Is that what you mean? Please invest some effort into using the right words. It makes it easier to provide useful answers. Front and rear brakes are completely independent systems. As long as both are functionally OK by themselves, there are no problems with mixing systems. Can become difficult to find levers that match both each other, and the different brake types. Front and rear (firm) braking affects the bike differently anyhow, so the "feel" will be different no matter what you do. Any rider who brakes more accordingly what happens to the bike than what happens at the lever will do fine.
Originally Posted by SelloCiompi
(Post 19303328)
..should the fork pass in the first place..
I asssume you mean "should the fork fit".
Originally Posted by SelloCiompi
(Post 19303328)
... I can always change the cups in the end
I assume you mean "replace headset bearing cups too".
Originally Posted by SelloCiompi
(Post 19303328)
...have threadless, larger stems..
Why are you talking about stems? If you want to use another fork, the steerer tube diameter is what decides if the fork will fit the frame. But of course, the steerer tube decides what stem you can use in/on that fork. |
Originally Posted by dabac
(Post 19303348)
What are pivot brakes?
Front and rear brakes are completely independent systems. As long as both are functionally OK by themselves, there are no problems with mixing systems. Can become difficult to find levers that match both each other, and the different brake types. Front and rear (firm) braking affects the bike differently anyhow, so the "feel" will be different no matter what you do. Any rider who brakes more accordingly what happens to the bike than what happens at the lever will do fine. |
May I suggest going here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_brake, and perhaps other bicycle vernacular websites to get the detail wording correct. Brakes can be very important and members here would not want to mislead you.
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As long as your brake levers are appropriate for the type of brake to which they connect, you should be fine. You may have a different "feel" for each brake, but even when both brakes are the same the front brake will "feel" different than the rear brake simply due to the physics of braking and the additional cable/housing to reach the rear brake.
Short answer: if you set them up properly, no worries. |
I have a bike with Magura HS-33 hydraulic rim brakes in front and Tektro CR-720 cantilevers in the rear and it works just fine. If you look at your car you will likely find that the brakes differ front to back also, either disc front/drum rear or different disc rotor sizes front/rear. After a very few stops you will unconsciously adjust to them.
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First, as long a both brakes are functioning properly, there is no problem mixing styles. Zero problem.
THe usual solution is to put the stronger style of brake in the front (like F disc, R canti, or front V and rear caliper) as your front brake is your primary tool for stopping, but, again, as long as both brakes work and you pay attention to what you are doing then there will be no problem. In my experience, properly set-up cantilever and (even better) V brakes are stronger than caliper brakes, though, so I would endeavor to use Vs or cantis on the front to ensure the best possible braking. Forks with canti/V pivots are still very common and you should have no problem finding one. |
Originally Posted by SelloCiompi
(Post 19303321)
I am currently upgrading an early 90s touring bike and I was wondering if there are any risks to having different types of brakes on the front and the rear... If for instance I put rim brakes in the front and cantis in the back, will the braking feel/performance/safety be affected by that difference?
As John mentioned above, front and rear brakes typically feel a little different, even if they're the exact same kind of brake. The front generally has shorter, more direct cable routing with less housing, so it'll have a more 'precise' feel for lack of a better description.
Originally Posted by SelloCiompi
(Post 19303321)
I am going to change the fork to go from threaded to threadless.
Pros:
Cons:
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https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...0&category=704
This one took me 2 minutes to find. I know there are others. |
Mixing brakes does not raise any functional red flags. Clearance and fit are the only real issues. Make sure that your replacement caliper has sufficient REACH when paired with the new fork to work with your wheels.
However if you are changing your fork for different reasons, you may want to look into a conversion adapter. https://www.amazon.com/Profile-Desig.../dp/B0028N14GQ This will allow you to use the wider variety of stems and bars now being offered. And will not entail other considerations already raised. And will be much less expensive. |
Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier
(Post 19303555)
First, as long a both brakes are functioning properly, there is no problem mixing styles. Zero problem.
THe usual solution is to put the stronger style of brake in the front (like F disc, R canti, or front V and rear caliper) as your front brake is your primary tool for stopping, but, again, as long as both brakes work and you pay attention to what you are doing then there will be no problem. |
A front stoppie is where All the deceleration forces are transferred to the front tire grip on the road.
Rear wheel is off the ground. |
Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier
(Post 19303555)
First, as long a both brakes are functioning properly, there is no problem mixing styles. Zero problem.
THe usual solution is to put the stronger style of brake in the front (like F disc, R canti, or front V and rear caliper) as your front brake is your primary tool for stopping, but, again, as long as both brakes work and you pay attention to what you are doing then there will be no problem. In my experience, properly set-up cantilever and (even better) V brakes are stronger than caliper brakes, though, so I would endeavor to use Vs or cantis on the front to ensure the best possible braking. Forks with canti/V pivots are still very common and you should have no problem finding one. Your use of the word pivot is entirely clear to me, but I would have preferred using 'bosses', only because you now raise again the point that we still don't know exactly what the o.p. means. I thought we were getting closer when another poster mentioned 'caliper' brakes. But maybe not. You also may not have noticed, but the fork you found is not in stock. From my experience that means discontinued. I don't know... maybe its because I am 58 years old and no longer dazzled by all this stuff, but I can't see any good reason to put a brand new fork in a 20 year old frame. Unless, maybe, the fork was damaged due to a crash... I would be worried about the frame as well in that case. Still, no reason to use a brand new fork, way cheaper to find a used one of the same kind as the damaged one. Unless, maybe, the new fork had Post, or IS mounts for disc brakes, but just to use standard or dual pivot sidepulls? Absolutely not. As you just said, that would not be an 'upgrade'. To mount v-'s or canti's? Maybe, but in that case mixing would not be an issue. I would use in the rear what I would use up front. There would be zero reason to run v's up front and canti's in back, or canti's up front and v's in the rear. |
Bikes have been manufactured with different brakes front and rear. I've seen some oddball machines (Viscount cross bike) with cantilever rear and centerpull front, and there are others out there including generations of coaster brake rear with front handbrake. As long as each brake is properly installed and adjusted there should be no cause for concern, aside from the aesthetics.
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
(Post 19303762)
Your use of the word pivot is entirely clear to me, but I would have preferred using 'bosses', only because you now raise again the point that we still don't know exactly what the o.p. means. I thought we were getting closer when another poster mentioned 'caliper' brakes. But maybe not. You also may not have noticed, but the fork you found is not in stock. From my experience that means discontinued.
I don't know... maybe its because I am 58 years old and no longer dazzled by all this stuff, but I can't see any good reason to put a brand new fork in a 20 year old frame. Unless, maybe, the fork was damaged due to a crash... I would be worried about the frame as well in that case. Still, no reason to use a brand new fork, way cheaper to find a used one of the same kind as the damaged one. Unless, maybe, the new fork had post, or IS mounts for disc brakes, but just to use standard or dual pivot sidepulls? Absolutely not. As you just said, that would not be an 'upgrade'. To mount v-'s or canti's? Maybe, but in that case mixing would not be an issue. I would use in the rear what I would use up front. There would be zero reason to run v's up front and canti's in back, or canti's up front and v's in the rear. I also noticed the 'out of stock' link (after I posted), and found the same tag for that fork at numerous vendors... so you are probably right that it was discontinued. I did find another (Dimension brand) fork that is available, but figured the previous advice to leave the threaded fork in place, possibly with a quill/threadless adaptor, to be good advice that did not need diluting. If it ain't broke... etc. |
I regularly ride a recumbent bike with disc front/dual pivot caliper rear and a recumbent tandem with a V-brake/front and disc/rear. (Plus a recumbent with dual V-brakes.) All three bikes meet my stopping needs.
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Originally Posted by SelloCiompi
(Post 19303321)
Hello,
I am currently upgrading an early 90s touring bike and I was wondering if there are any risks to having different types of brakes on the front and the rear. Specifically, the bike came with cantilever brakes, but I am going to change the fork to go from threaded to threadless. A new fork might not have cantilever brakes necessarily. If for instance I put rim brakes in the front and cantis in the back, will the braking feel/performance/safety be affected by that difference? My gut feeling says no since the pads will be generally the same and brake feel can be modulated to equalize them across the bike, but maybe you guys have past experience with this? :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by easyupbug
(Post 19303441)
May I suggest going here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_brake, and perhaps other bicycle vernacular websites to get the detail wording correct. Brakes can be very important and members here would not want to mislead you.
http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-conten...u_know_nbc.gif |
Originally Posted by SkyDog75
(Post 19303587)
A caliper in front paired with a cantilever brake in the rear will work just fine. You can use the same kind of lever for both as well since cantis and calipers generally have compatible cable pull ratios.
As John mentioned above, front and rear brakes typically feel a little different, even if they're the exact same kind of brake. The front generally has shorter, more direct cable routing with less housing, so it'll have a more 'precise' feel for lack of a better description. Any particular reason? The pros may not outweigh the cons. Pros:
Cons:
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Thank you all for the help and feedback so far, and for bearing with my...erm...inexperienced use...of brake terminology.
As for threaded/less debate, I've been given a lot more to think about. I originally thought a threadless fork would just be a big upgrade along a lot of different aspects of the bike (handling, feel, handlebar adjustments, etc.), but given what's going on here I will reconsider it. Anyway, good to know that if done correctly, different brakes won't necessarily send me into a tree; that impact will be my fault alone. |
cutting through the vocabulary lessons, the answer is NO, there's no safety related issue.
However, caliper brake performance worsens as the reach increases, so if you're using tires 28mm or wider, you should consider stay with canti's up front and buying the fork accordingly. |
Ever hear the phrase "never bring a knife to a gunfight"?
This applies to pepper spray also. The folks that represent a real danger to you won't threaten, they'll simply brace you when they have the opportunity. And, they'll most likely be armed with a knife or gun. So, unless you're super cool, and super fast and accurate in a crunch, odds are the pepper spray won't work out in your favor. OTOH - those nuts that are all talk may cause you to take action that isn't called for, (in the eyes of the law) and depending on the jurisdiction may cause you legal trouble. So carry the spray if it makes you feel better, but IME the best defense for the sort of thing you experienced is to walk purposefully and project strength as you move away. |
Your brake question aside, your lack of even basic bike terminology causes me concern when you say that your are going to change forks. BEWARE, there is more to forks than just putting a new one in, and amateurs can SERIOUSLY screw-up their bikes by fitting the wrong fork. Do you know what RAKE your current fork has? If you can't answer that simple question, then you should NOT attempt a fork change!
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