1x On a road bike?
#1
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 416
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
1x On a road bike?
Coming from the fixed gear world, i'm looking at buying my first multi speed bike.
Seems all road bikes come with a 2x set up, and i'm trying to figure out why?
My normal gearing is 48/17 on the road, 48/15 on the track.
I can ride 48/17 pretty much up everything, and can't think of a reason why I'd need an inner chain ring on a road bike and have been thinking of just making it a 1x system from the get go to cut weight and the unnecessary inner ring.
Seems all road bikes come with a 2x set up, and i'm trying to figure out why?
My normal gearing is 48/17 on the road, 48/15 on the track.
I can ride 48/17 pretty much up everything, and can't think of a reason why I'd need an inner chain ring on a road bike and have been thinking of just making it a 1x system from the get go to cut weight and the unnecessary inner ring.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,504
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5680 Post(s)
Liked 2,386 Times
in
1,320 Posts
Using two rings allows broader range gearing without giving up the close spacing that's useful on the road. If your terrain allows you to ride fixed, then you certainly don't need the expanded range, so no reason why you can't go 1x with a narrow to mid range cassette.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#3
Banned
yes, its a range difference for the collection of sprockets on the hub..
typically the resultant gear ratio set on one chain-rings overlaps with the ratio set of the gears of the other chain ring
same goes with a triple , 2 ratio over laps .
size of the overlap is reduced as the difference is larger.
try out the math for yourself.
...
typically the resultant gear ratio set on one chain-rings overlaps with the ratio set of the gears of the other chain ring
same goes with a triple , 2 ratio over laps .
size of the overlap is reduced as the difference is larger.
try out the math for yourself.
...
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,600
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18302 Post(s)
Liked 4,470 Times
in
3,326 Posts
The FD does give the added benefit as acting as a chain guide. But, there are several alternative "drop stop" methods you could use.
#5
Banned
the fixation kit was made to have 6 gears on a narrow frame track bike with 9 speed type chain spacing
and a derailleur and its own special cassette hub.
and a derailleur and its own special cassette hub.
#6
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,775
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3124 Post(s)
Liked 2,101 Times
in
1,366 Posts
#7
Banned
monster 42t low gear sprockets are trendy in the MTB world
Road bikes use what is seen under the pro racers ..
you are free to do as you wish with your money. spend, the economy depends on You..
Road bikes use what is seen under the pro racers ..
you are free to do as you wish with your money. spend, the economy depends on You..
#8
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 416
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
yeah I haven't heard great things though, and you have to build a whole new wheel and there isn't any cable management and you have to use TT end shifters. cheaper, but I don't think thats the direction I want to go.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2025 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,095 Times
in
741 Posts
#11
Old bikes, Older guy
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Fiscal Conservative on the Lefty Coast - Oregon
Posts: 866
Bikes: A few modern, Several vintage, All ridden when weather allows.
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked 156 Times
in
108 Posts
Age and a move to an unflat location necessitated changing my single speed city/commuter to a multi-speed. Set up a 7 X 1 system on the bike and am quite happy with it. I'm currently building an 8 X 1 with an aluminum MTB frame just to save some weight and upgrade the old steed. So, unless you live in a mountainous area, I'd say, go with the 1X drive train. By-the-way, 1X is becoming popular for commuters in many areas.
Cheers,
Van
Cheers,
Van
#12
Insane Bicycle Mechanic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: other Vancouver
Posts: 9,808
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 785 Post(s)
Liked 687 Times
in
366 Posts
Coming from the fixed gear world, i'm looking at buying my first multi speed bike.
Seems all road bikes come with a 2x set up, and i'm trying to figure out why?
My normal gearing is 48/17 on the road, 48/15 on the track.
I can ride 48/17 pretty much up everything, and can't think of a reason why I'd need an inner chain ring on a road bike and have been thinking of just making it a 1x system from the get go to cut weight and the unnecessary inner ring.
Seems all road bikes come with a 2x set up, and i'm trying to figure out why?
My normal gearing is 48/17 on the road, 48/15 on the track.
I can ride 48/17 pretty much up everything, and can't think of a reason why I'd need an inner chain ring on a road bike and have been thinking of just making it a 1x system from the get go to cut weight and the unnecessary inner ring.
Come to Portland. We'll cure you of your fixed gear habit:
https://ridewithgps.com/ambassador_r...est-portlandia
__________________
Jeff Wills
Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
Jeff Wills
Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
#13
Tortoise Wins by a Hare!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Looney Tunes, IL
Posts: 7,398
Bikes: Wabi Special FG, Raleigh Roper, Nashbar AL-1, Miyata One Hundred, '70 Schwinn Lemonator and More!!
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1549 Post(s)
Liked 941 Times
in
504 Posts
I'm with you, OP. I have several bikes with 1X systems (or FG) and recently converted one triple to a single. ...and there are some hills on my routes.
Unless I'm pulling a loaded touring bike in the mountains somewhere, there will be no more multi chainrings for me.
Unless I'm pulling a loaded touring bike in the mountains somewhere, there will be no more multi chainrings for me.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
Specialized Allez Sprint.
#15
Mostly harmless ™
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Novi Sad
Posts: 4,422
Bikes: Heavy, with friction shifters
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1105 Post(s)
Liked 213 Times
in
127 Posts
2x beats 1x at:
- gear range - offers a lot wider gear range with the same cassette. Using a wider range cassette on a 1x setup still doesn't reach the 2x system's gear range (though can come close, unless going for some MTB style 11-42 cassettes), while it sacrifices gear spacing tightness, even on the "fast" part of the cassette. I.e. you get a wide range cassette with big jumps just.
- chainline - well, for most of the people, most of the time. 2x system can be made so that chain runs more straight. When going up steep hills, shift to the small front ring, and have less chain angle when using the slower part of the cassette. Same goes when riding straights, or down hill. Though modern "compact" doubles, with 50-34 chainrings don't excel in that department
- easy big jump in gear ratio, using only one shift. Approaching a red light, one can just make one front shift to the smaller ring, making an equivalent of 3 shifts at the rear, or more, depending on the cassette, and the crankset.
1x beats 2x at:
- simplicity: no FD, no front shifter, hence no front shifting to consider and ever think about. Getting used to front shifting, with minding cross chaining, is not a big deal, but for small children, some men, even more women, as well as situations where there's little oxygen left to the brain because of a great effort and speed - front shifting can get a bit trickier.
- lower weight
- it is the new hype, so your bike will look more trendy
Price is about the same for all I know. With 1x you don't buy one shifter and FD, but the cranksets seem to be more expensive, and many people buy chain guides to help with preventing chain drop. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these accounts (price and the need for a chain guide).
Weigh the pros and cons of each system and see what's best for you.
Me, I'd always go with dirt cheap and reliable 3x7, or 3x8.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,688
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1074 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times
in
222 Posts
My regular commuter is 3x7, with a "road" cassette.
It - and me - spins out at 25 mph. An issue for perhaps 30 seconds of my regular route.
Being able to stay on power for 30 seconds extra during a 54-75 minute ride isn't going to increase my average speed/reduce my travel time worth mentioning.
The granny gear is only used when circumstances stack up against me.
Studded tires, 2-3 inches of mushy snow, it comes in handy during climbs.
Or when the RD freezes.
The rest of the year I could easily do 2x7 w/ missing a thing.
I could - and have - use a 1x10 instead of 2x7.
But I'm not particularly troubled by front shifts.
To me, getting rid of the front shift isn't worth the poorer mileage between replacements, and the higher cost of a 1x10.
I've considered building up a mid-drive ebike as a winter commuter. To compensate for studded tires and snow. Would save me about 30-45 minutes daily. Might accept 1x10 there, as mid-drive units don't seem to do doble cranks.
It - and me - spins out at 25 mph. An issue for perhaps 30 seconds of my regular route.
Being able to stay on power for 30 seconds extra during a 54-75 minute ride isn't going to increase my average speed/reduce my travel time worth mentioning.
The granny gear is only used when circumstances stack up against me.
Studded tires, 2-3 inches of mushy snow, it comes in handy during climbs.
Or when the RD freezes.
The rest of the year I could easily do 2x7 w/ missing a thing.
I could - and have - use a 1x10 instead of 2x7.
But I'm not particularly troubled by front shifts.
To me, getting rid of the front shift isn't worth the poorer mileage between replacements, and the higher cost of a 1x10.
I've considered building up a mid-drive ebike as a winter commuter. To compensate for studded tires and snow. Would save me about 30-45 minutes daily. Might accept 1x10 there, as mid-drive units don't seem to do doble cranks.
#17
Senior Member
@Jixr, 1X bikes have been around for a very long time so this isn't a new concept. If your bike is equipped for a RD hanger you have the option to easily convert your FG to either a derailleur's external drive train design or to use an IG (internally geared) hub. Perhaps even a dingle is attractive to you.
Multiple chain rings simply expand the gear range of a multi geared rear system. In some cases they were engineered to provide closer ratios with a wide ratio freewheel.
Brad
Multiple chain rings simply expand the gear range of a multi geared rear system. In some cases they were engineered to provide closer ratios with a wide ratio freewheel.
Brad
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Missouri
Posts: 710
Bikes: Nashbar CR5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Chainline is a big deal Slaninar brought up.
If you watch a pro cyclist, you'll see them use the big ring or the little ring in situations where they could get the exact same gear ratio on the opposite ring. Efficient shifting means keeping the chain as straight as possible. They also choose their cassette and chainrings based on the upcoming ride (they have the luxury of being able to change those every ride; unlike most of us who pick our gearing when we buy the bike!), and they try to figure out where their chain will be the most, and make it straighter. Pro's will use smaller chainrings and bigger cassettes in the mountains not because you'll very frequently see them in those super easy gears, but because they can be a couple cogs down the block with a nice straight chain in a gear that's about the same as if they WERE in the easiest gear in the flat road configuration. Likewise, you won't see a lot of pro's, outside of Peter Sagan in a sprint, use 53x11. That's not the point. The point is, they can cruise at, say, 53x17 with a nice, straight, efficient chain. In Time Trials, people will be in awe of the massive chainrings they use. Like a 56x42 or something crazy. But in fact, they'll still probably never see 56x11. It's all about figuring out what gear ratio they are going to be in for the majority of the time trial, and picking gears that allow that ratio to be selected with as straight of a chain as possible.
Some assume the purpose of gears is to enable you to do something you otherwise wouldn't be capable of doing. That's part of it, but efficiency and speed is a lot of it too. You can be more efficient, AND faster, at a higher cadence. A great real-world example of this is the early days of the Tour de France when derailleurs were banned. Riders used fixed gear bikes with generally one gear on each side of the wheel; so they'd flip the wheel depending on whether they were climbing or on the flat sections. And the riders began to demand the derailleur restriction be lifted when they were being passed up the climbs by local enthusiasts and tourists with derailleurs on their bikes. Just because you CAN make it up a climb with a fixed gear; doesn't mean you couldn't actually go faster in an easier gear that allowed a higher cadence; but the same power; the higher cadence being more efficient, will allow you to hold that power longer.
The two biggest reasons I use my 2x setup are range at the extremes; I do occasionally use 50x11 on descents; and I use 34x11 quite a bit on the very speed (10%+, sometimes 15%+) climbs around here. If I had a 1x setup I'd either be grinding up the climbs or spinning out on the backside. But I also use it to keep my chain straight. Using the little ring on the top 2/3rds of the block, and the big ring on the bottom 2/3rds of the block.
If you watch a pro cyclist, you'll see them use the big ring or the little ring in situations where they could get the exact same gear ratio on the opposite ring. Efficient shifting means keeping the chain as straight as possible. They also choose their cassette and chainrings based on the upcoming ride (they have the luxury of being able to change those every ride; unlike most of us who pick our gearing when we buy the bike!), and they try to figure out where their chain will be the most, and make it straighter. Pro's will use smaller chainrings and bigger cassettes in the mountains not because you'll very frequently see them in those super easy gears, but because they can be a couple cogs down the block with a nice straight chain in a gear that's about the same as if they WERE in the easiest gear in the flat road configuration. Likewise, you won't see a lot of pro's, outside of Peter Sagan in a sprint, use 53x11. That's not the point. The point is, they can cruise at, say, 53x17 with a nice, straight, efficient chain. In Time Trials, people will be in awe of the massive chainrings they use. Like a 56x42 or something crazy. But in fact, they'll still probably never see 56x11. It's all about figuring out what gear ratio they are going to be in for the majority of the time trial, and picking gears that allow that ratio to be selected with as straight of a chain as possible.
Some assume the purpose of gears is to enable you to do something you otherwise wouldn't be capable of doing. That's part of it, but efficiency and speed is a lot of it too. You can be more efficient, AND faster, at a higher cadence. A great real-world example of this is the early days of the Tour de France when derailleurs were banned. Riders used fixed gear bikes with generally one gear on each side of the wheel; so they'd flip the wheel depending on whether they were climbing or on the flat sections. And the riders began to demand the derailleur restriction be lifted when they were being passed up the climbs by local enthusiasts and tourists with derailleurs on their bikes. Just because you CAN make it up a climb with a fixed gear; doesn't mean you couldn't actually go faster in an easier gear that allowed a higher cadence; but the same power; the higher cadence being more efficient, will allow you to hold that power longer.
The two biggest reasons I use my 2x setup are range at the extremes; I do occasionally use 50x11 on descents; and I use 34x11 quite a bit on the very speed (10%+, sometimes 15%+) climbs around here. If I had a 1x setup I'd either be grinding up the climbs or spinning out on the backside. But I also use it to keep my chain straight. Using the little ring on the top 2/3rds of the block, and the big ring on the bottom 2/3rds of the block.
#20
Senior Member
For many years prior, going 1X either meant still using a shifting-capable left lever (or a mismatched brake-only lever) and still using a front derailleur or chain guide to keep the chain from falling off, negating any weight advantage for the set up. For many cyclists, it also makes little sense to only have one chainring as conditions frequently warrant two especially if using a cassette with road-friendly jumps between cogs.
I'd argue that 1X will always remain a niche, other than perhaps for a short period as a fad. But I'm also not the target market living in an area with lots of rolling hills and some really steep climbs plus a preference for running as tight of a cassette as possible.
I'd argue that 1X will always remain a niche, other than perhaps for a short period as a fad. But I'm also not the target market living in an area with lots of rolling hills and some really steep climbs plus a preference for running as tight of a cassette as possible.
#21
FLIR Kitten to 0.05C
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,331
Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2349 Post(s)
Liked 406 Times
in
254 Posts
For many years prior, going 1X either meant still using a shifting-capable left lever (or a mismatched brake-only lever) and still using a front derailleur or chain guide to keep the chain from falling off, negating any weight advantage for the set up. For many cyclists, it also makes little sense to only have one chainring as conditions frequently warrant two especially if using a cassette with road-friendly jumps between cogs.
I'd argue that 1X will always remain a niche, other than perhaps for a short period as a fad. But I'm also not the target market living in an area with lots of rolling hills and some really steep climbs plus a preference for running as tight of a cassette as possible.
I'd argue that 1X will always remain a niche, other than perhaps for a short period as a fad. But I'm also not the target market living in an area with lots of rolling hills and some really steep climbs plus a preference for running as tight of a cassette as possible.
The industry giveth and the industry taketh away.
#22
Senior Member
#23
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,775
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3124 Post(s)
Liked 2,101 Times
in
1,366 Posts
It looks like Shimano isn't picking it up for the road bike range. If the only obstacle is the lack of a left lever that matches the styling, well... that's not really a technological problem. That's a marketing decision. They gave Metrea a 1x11 option but it's not being marketed in the States.
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Genesis 49:16-17
#24
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,842
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 919 Times
in
606 Posts
So they use gearing that should be good for the majority of people.
You can't expect an "off the rack" bike to be perfect for everyone. But if bought new, you may be able to arrange some customizing with the shop, before the parts become used
I have a lot of short steep hills, and use the full range of gears on my road bike. (53/39 and 12-25)
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
#25
FLIR Kitten to 0.05C
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,331
Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2349 Post(s)
Liked 406 Times
in
254 Posts
Manufactures don't know who will buy their bike, their fitness, the terrain where it will be sold etc...
So they use gearing that should be good for the majority of people.
You can't expect an "off the rack" bike to be perfect for everyone. But if bought new, you may be able to arrange some customizing with the shop, before the parts become used
I have a lot of short steep hills, and use the full range of gears on my road bike. (53/39 and 12-25)
So they use gearing that should be good for the majority of people.
You can't expect an "off the rack" bike to be perfect for everyone. But if bought new, you may be able to arrange some customizing with the shop, before the parts become used
I have a lot of short steep hills, and use the full range of gears on my road bike. (53/39 and 12-25)
Thinking of signing up for a gravel grinder here locally that is 150 miles of fun this summer. It typically has 10-11,000+ feet of climbing in it. In Nebraska.
Science: Several U.S. States, Led by Florida, Are Flatter Than a Pancake - The Atlantic